# Is it time to bring up the 25th Amendment again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426 "2019-10-07T16:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/1 "2019-10-07T16:47:25Z")
Because our Fearless Leader [just tweeted this](http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/): > [@I Am Oz](#): > > As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over… > > …the captured ISIS fighters and families. The U.S. has done far more than anyone could have ever expected, including the capture of 100% of the ISIS Caliphate. It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory. THE USA IS GREAT! No, _not_ The Onion. If only. Link above is to the Trump Twitter Archive, where you can read Trump’s tweets without having to click on his actual Twitter feed. Direct links follow, if you must go there. > > Memo to Republicans: it’s your easiest out. Might want to take it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/2 "2019-10-07T16:56:15Z")
A couple of tweets you dislike are not sufficient evidence “that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/3 "2019-10-07T17:05:58Z")
You don’t think insanity is a disability? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/4 "2019-10-07T17:06:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You don’t think insanity is a disability? I don’t think those two tweets are evidence of “insanity”. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/5 "2019-10-07T17:06:44Z")
After decades of climbing, Trump finally [ascends the Peak of “Mt. Stupid”](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c8facb1fb22a57f65bacf1d/5c9240a6971a1827dbcd0c19/5cb604b7e4966b150671a022/1556659669182/The+Dunning-Kruger+Effect.png?format=1500w) and surveys the world around him in a state of omniscience. Next up: the Valley of Despair. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/6 "2019-10-07T17:27:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A couple of tweets you dislike are not sufficient evidence “that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. Sorry. That’s true, it’s not sufficient evidence. It’s the latest evidence. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/7 "2019-10-07T17:32:36Z")
Hey, the good news is that you don’t have to convince me. You’ve just got to convince Vice-President Pence, and a majority of the Cabinet. Do you think you’ve done that yet? Do you think you’re even close? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/8 "2019-10-07T17:33:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A couple of tweets you dislike are not sufficient evidence “that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. Sorry. Apparently you’re unfamiliar with what Trump says and tweets. Apparently you’re under the misapprehension that he sounds totally sane the rest of the time. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/9 "2019-10-07T17:36:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Because our Fearless Leader [just tweeted this](http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/): > > No, _not_ The Onion. If only. > … > Link above is to the Trump Twitter Archive, where you can read Trump’s tweets without having to click on his actual Twitter feed. Direct links follow, if you must go there. > > … Hey thanks for that link! I have avoided clicking Trump tweet links, and now have a way to view the carnage. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/10 "2019-10-07T17:37:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Hey, the good news is that you don’t have to convince me. You’ve just got to convince Vice-President Pence, and a majority of the Cabinet. Do you think you’ve done that yet? Do you think you’re even close? I don’t. Well, I guess that shuts down this forum (and Elections too), since there’s no reason to believe our debates here aren’t read by anyone like that, so none of our debates will ever convince the people who need convincing. OK everybody, time to shut down these forums! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Taesahnim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taesahnim/32/84_2.png) [@Taesahnim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taesahnim)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/11 "2019-10-07T18:25:24Z")
\*\*Is it time to bring up the 25th Amendment again? \*\* In a word: no. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/12 "2019-10-07T18:26:35Z")
Is so. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/13 "2019-10-07T19:07:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Apparently you’re unfamiliar with what Trump says and tweets. Apparently you’re under the misapprehension that he sounds totally sane the rest of the time. I don’t follow President Trump’s (or anyone else’s) Twitter account with any regularity. As I told **ElvisL1ves** , I don’t think he sounds “insane” in the two tweets from your OP. If you think there were some _other_ tweets that were better evidence of insanity, perhaps you should have included those in your OP instead of the ones you did. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well, I guess that shuts down this forum (and Elections too), since there’s no reason to believe our debates here aren’t read by anyone like that, so none of our debates will ever convince the people who need convincing. > > OK everybody, time to shut down these forums! 😃 The forums are fine. Your thread title was “Is it time to bring up the 25th Amendment again?” I assumed you meant that in the context of taking action authorized under the 25th Amendment (having the VP & Cabinet remove the President from office). The answer to that is a simple “no”. You don’t have the votes to do what you want. And trying and failing would get any allies you might have in the Cabinet promptly fired. If you were actually asking if it’s time to bring up the 25th Amendment again to engage in pointlessly calling President Trump “insane”, then carry on I guess, but you won’t accomplish anything by it. That doesn’t mean the forums need to be shut down. It just means that it’s not time to bring up the 25th Amendment again (a direct answer to your question), because you don’t need to bring it up to tell us that you think President Trump is “insane”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/14 "2019-10-07T19:14:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Hey, the good news is that you don’t have to convince me. You’ve just got to convince Vice-President Pence, and a majority of the Cabinet. Do you think you’ve done that yet? Do you think you’re even close? I don’t. I guess that just moves us to the next issue; Are Vice President Pence, the cabinet, and other Republicans refusing to carry out their constitutional duties by allowing an unfit person to act as President? And how should we, as voters, respond to this? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/15 "2019-10-07T19:36:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I guess that just moves us to the next issue; Are Vice President Pence, the cabinet, and other Republicans refusing to carry out their constitutional duties by allowing an unfit person to act as President? … No, they are not. They, like me, are unpersuaded that President Trump is “unfit” (the 25th Amendment says “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”, which by my reading is a bit higher bar than his political opponents judging him “unfit”, but YMMV.) > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … And how should we, as voters, respond to this? Same as always: we should support the candidates we believe will do the job best. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/16 "2019-10-07T19:45:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, they are not. They, like me, are unpersuaded that President Trump is “unfit” (the 25th Amendment says “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”, which by my reading is a bit higher bar than his political opponents judging him “unfit”, but YMMV.) How high _do_ you set that bar, btw? What specifically would put him over that bar? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/17 "2019-10-07T19:47:37Z")
You’re asking that of a guy who thinks someone claiming to have “great and unmatched wisdom” is mentally healthy. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/18 "2019-10-07T19:50:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re asking that of a guy who thinks someone claiming to have “great and unmatched wisdom” is mentally healthy. Good luck. Just wondering if that bar actually exists at all. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/19 "2019-10-07T19:56:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How high _do_ you set that bar, btw? What specifically would put him over that bar? I don’t have a comprehensive list, but things like unconsciousness, serious injury or illness, etc. Perhaps some circumstances of extreme mental anguish / duress, like a kidnapped wife or child in the hands of bad guys. I believe when President GWB was going in for a medical procedure he temporarily transferred authority to VP Cheney. “he’s not doing it the way I want him to” shouldn’t count as “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/20 "2019-10-07T20:00:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I guess that just moves us to the next issue; Are Vice President Pence, the cabinet, and other Republicans refusing to carry out their constitutional duties by allowing an unfit person to act as President? Unfit as defined as “you disagree with him”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426.md?page=2)