# Is it time to bring up the 25th Amendment again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426 "2019-10-07T16:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/21 "2019-10-07T20:04:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re asking that of a guy who thinks someone claiming to have “great and unmatched wisdom” is mentally healthy. Good luck. You’re absolutely correct. Anyone that says things like > [@](#): > > I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m a better political director than my political director. should not be President ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/22 "2019-10-07T20:04:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, they are not. They, like me, are unpersuaded that President Trump is “unfit” (the 25th Amendment says “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”, which by my reading is a bit higher bar than his political opponents judging him “unfit”, but YMMV.) I think they are very well aware of his unfitness and this goes all the way back to Day 1 when he walked into the White House completely unprepared for the job, Day 2 where he yelled at Australia because it was getting a little late, all the way to today where he threatens an ally via Twitter. There have been reports that any time something crazy happens in the White House, Pence disappears or suggests that he doesn’t know anything about it. There is profit to be made by having Trump rile up the Fox News, underinformed, and racist base and as long as it’s profitable, you won’t get any traction out of Mr. Pence’s Mother’s husband. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/23 "2019-10-07T20:42:43Z")
Maybe I should make a distinction here. His willingness to throw an ally to the wolves if they didn’t dig up some political dirt for him isn’t evidence that he is unfit for office in the sense of lacking the ability to properly function - IOW, the proper response to such activity is impeachment, NOT the 25th Amendment. OTOH, his flailing with respect to Turkey and Syria, where he’s just doing shit without having a clue about what he’s doing, _might_ arguably be evidence for using the 25th Amendment, IMHO. He’s a danger to our allies and to that part of the world, but out of no more evil intent that I can see than a bull in a china shop has. You get bulls out of china shops before they break things without knowing what they’re doing. Same with President Trump. To the tune of the “March of the Toreadors”: _Please keep your bull outside the china shop No bulls allowed, that’s where they stop It’s the rule, the way it’s always been Your bull cannot come in By this I must insist that you abide And keep your bull outside._ -Beethoven’s Wig President Trump is going to be impeached. That’s pretty much a given at this point. He may or may not be removed - odds are still heavily in favor of ‘not’ at this point - but much to my surprise, Mitch is going to make his Senators actually vote on the question. And it’s going to be very much a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ vote for GOP Senators in purple states: do you piss off your base and get primaried, or do you piss off everyone not in the hardcore 42% and lose next November? The 25th Amendment is a way out. There’s a very good argument that while he still has the mental capacity to sign his name to contracts and stuff, the demands of the Presidency are quite simply beyond him. This wouldn’t involve the GOP repudiating anything he’s done that his base actually cares about: they can still hate the libs and the Hispanics and black people and Muslims as much as they want, but they can point to things like the Turkish mess as evidence that the job is simply beyond him. And they can tell the base, “we’ve got up-and-comers like Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley who agree with Trump on practically everything, but are actually capable of operating the levers of power, and we’ll get one of them, or someone similar, into the White House in 2020. And meanwhile, that pathetic dipshit Pence can hold down the fort.” ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/24 "2019-10-07T23:24:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Apparently you’re unfamiliar with what Trump says and tweets. Apparently you’re under the misapprehension that he sounds totally sane the rest of the time. You just made my day. Geo-politics is sort-of-kind-of complicated. Something our current commander in chief con not quite grasp. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/25 "2019-10-07T23:36:55Z")
No. At the end of the 25th procedure, if the President claims he is able to perform the duties of the office - it takes a two-thirds vote of the House and the Senate to refute that claim. IOW - more difficult than impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/26 "2019-10-07T23:47:55Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > No. > > At the end of the 25th procedure, if the President claims he is able to perform the duties of the office - it takes a two-thirds vote of the House and the Senate to refute that claim. > > IOW - more difficult than impeachment. Just tell Trump that Obama would fight it every step of the way, and he’ll do the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/27 "2019-10-08T00:02:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Just tell Trump that Obama would fight it every step of the way, and he’ll do the opposite. Let’s see how well that works out for Lindsey - he tried reverse psychology today. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/28 "2019-10-08T00:20:41Z")
I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever referred to his own “great and unmatched wisdom”. Probably [something like this](https://giphy.com/gifs/history-head-exploding-oaPcDncoLfgjK)\*. \*Link to very gory GIF from _Scanners_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/29 "2019-10-08T00:30:06Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > After decades of climbing, Trump finally [ascends the Peak of “Mt. Stupid”](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c8facb1fb22a57f65bacf1d/5c9240a6971a1827dbcd0c19/5cb604b7e4966b150671a022/1556659669182/The+Dunning-Kruger+Effect.png?format=1500w) and surveys the world around him in a state of omniscience. Next up: the Valley of Despair. Enclosed by the Cliffs of Insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/30 "2019-10-08T07:13:55Z")
All I’ll say is that if Boris Johnson had tweeted that, Parliament would’ve held a vote of No Confidence before he’d put his phone down. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/31 "2019-10-08T07:19:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever referred to his own “great and unmatched wisdom”. Probably [something like this](https://giphy.com/gifs/history-head-exploding-oaPcDncoLfgjK)\*. > > \*Link to very gory GIF from _Scanners_. Trump does three things every week which would’ve had the Republicans invoking the 25th if Obama had done them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/32 "2019-10-08T13:48:23Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever referred to his own “great and unmatched wisdom”. Probably [something like this](https://giphy.com/gifs/history-head-exploding-oaPcDncoLfgjK)\*. > > \*Link to very gory GIF from _Scanners_. Everyone here pretty much ignored post #21, so … that, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/33 "2019-10-08T14:32:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Everyone here pretty much ignored post #21, so … that, I guess. [Post #21 in context.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/11/17/battle-plans) Got any more "Look! Over _there!_"s you’d like to share? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/34 "2019-10-08T14:35:19Z")
When the post I’m responding to starts out “I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever …” then Obama’s actions, and Dopers’ hypocritical reactions to them are not "Look! Over there!"s. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/35 "2019-10-08T15:02:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > When the post I’m responding to starts out “I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever …” then Obama’s actions, and Dopers’ hypocritical reactions to them are not "Look! Over there!"s. I just had the same reaction when I read over in the other thread how Republicans will never convict a Republican president on impeachable offenses because they are partisan assholes. Because perjury is apparently not an impeachable offense [except when it is](https://constitutionallawreporter.com/2017/06/21/judge-walter-nixon-impeached-perjury-conviction/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/36 "2019-10-08T15:05:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What specifically would put him over that bar? If Trump announced he was switching back to the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/37 "2019-10-08T15:09:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Everyone here pretty much ignored post #21, so … that, I guess. Obama’s statement was arrogant. Trump’s statement was delusional. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/38 "2019-10-08T15:11:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > When the post I’m responding to starts out “I’m just trying to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever …” then Obama’s actions, and Dopers’ hypocritical reactions to them are not "Look! Over there!"s. Oh? I don’t think you really understood the context. Obama’s was a private comment made to a single individual interviewing to be political director, and was part of his strategy to inspire his staff to excellence (Elon Musk does the same thing). If you think it’s the same as a certifiable ignoramus sending an illiterate tweet to the entire world with a comical claim to “great and unmatched wisdom” then please go ahead and keep saying it. It’s wonderfully entertaining to watch! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/39 "2019-10-08T15:21:55Z")
Yes, the Clown-in-Chief’s Twitter feed is to reality and logic what the sunken city of R’lyeh is to architecture and geometry. That suffices to prove that he’s a nitwit, but isn’t quite enough to prove that he’s incapacitated. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426/40 "2019-10-08T15:39:07Z")
I thought the most disturbing part of that tweet was actually “…if Turkey does anything that I… consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).” It just makes all U.S. diplomacy meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-bring-up-the-25th-amendment-again/841426.md?page=3)