# Is It Time to Impeach Bush for Incompetence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442 "2006-07-21T03:30:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/1 "2006-07-21T03:30:57Z")
Whether you agree with Bush’s policies or not, he looks like a deer caught in the headlights lately. Iraq is going to hell, the mid-east has erupted, and it seems like he has no plan. Is it time to impeach him just to get someone competent in there? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/2 "2006-07-21T03:34:44Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Whether you agree with Bush’s policies or not, he looks like a deer caught in the headlights lately. Iraq is going to hell, the mid-east has erupted, and it seems like he has no plan. Is it time to impeach him just to get someone competent in there? \*Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. \* U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 4 > **[Article II](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii)** So that would be a no. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/3 "2006-07-21T03:35:45Z")
I’m no fan of Bush & Co., but what would be the point? Let Cheney run the show? If we give him the boot, too, who would we want in charge? Is there really anyone out there that could clean up this mess? ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/4 "2006-07-21T03:35:55Z")
Is incompetence viable ground for impeachment? I do seem to recall reading somewhere that Congress has basically carte blanche to impeach for whatever they’d like, but I can’t back that up. Personally, I think Bush should have been impeached long ago. Maybe there should be some sort of provision that if you stay under a certain approval rating for long enough, you get an insta-impeach. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/5 "2006-07-21T03:37:23Z")
Sorry, I just assumed there was already enough evidence of crimes that something could be trumped up to meet the constitutional requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/6 "2006-07-21T03:38:40Z")
Nope. Not in [April](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368817&highlight=impeach), not in [February](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=360629&highlight=impeach), not [three years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=170136&highlight=impeach), and not in [2002](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=125662&highlight=impeach) either. And those were just the ones with “impeach” in the title… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/7 "2006-07-21T03:39:50Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Sorry, I just assumed there was already enough evidence of crimes that something could be trumped up to meet the constitutional requirements. Interesting. You propose subverting the Democratic electoral process simply because you do not agree with the result? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/8 "2006-07-21T03:43:05Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Interesting. You propose subverting the Democratic electoral process simply because you do not agree with the result? Did you think I was a Supreme Court Justice? No, I was wondering if it is getting to the point where it is too dangerous to leave this guy in power. I’m also questioning whether those who agree with Bush’s policies are also worried. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/9 "2006-07-21T03:52:19Z")
> [@Lama Pacos](#): > > Is incompetence viable ground for impeachment? I do seem to recall reading somewhere that Congress has basically carte blanche to impeach for whatever they’d like … Only pragmatically speaking, in that if the Congress had the capability of manufacturing an impeachment, there wouldn’t be any way to stop them and the check on that power would be to throw the bums out in the next election cycle. As **Oakminster** noted, the Constitution requires some crime to occur. As a mild hijack, I wrote a message board post once about whether the Supreme Court would have the power to overturn a wrongful impeachment. It’s been a while, and I don’t remember my rationale. I decided that there’s nothing absolutely, but that a hypothetical Court with no political agenda would probably find the issue nonjusticiable because the impeachment process is textually delegated to the legislature. Would anyone care to correct me or help me flesh out the reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/10 "2006-07-21T03:55:10Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Interesting. You propose subverting the Democratic electoral process simply because you do not agree with the result? Or put another way… _Listen, strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony_ ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/11 "2006-07-21T04:00:56Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > As a mild hijack, I wrote a message board post once about whether the Supreme Court would have the power to overturn a wrongful impeachment. It’s been a while, and I don’t remember my rationale. I decided that there’s nothing absolutely, but that a hypothetical Court with no political agenda would probably find the issue nonjusticiable because the impeachment process is textually delegated to the legislature. Would anyone care to correct me or help me flesh out the reasoning? Article I, Section 2: \*The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment. \* Article I, Section 3: \*The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present. Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law. \* ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/12 "2006-07-21T04:02:29Z")
And the link: > **[Article I](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei)** ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/13 "2006-07-21T04:39:28Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Did you think I was a Supreme Court Justice? No. I did not think that. Not even once. > [@](#): > > No, I was wondering if it is getting to the point where it is too dangerous to leave this guy in power. I’m also questioning whether those who agree with Bush’s policies are also worried. I understand. I’m just surprised you would state it so baldly, and appear to be pretty cavalier about subverting the agreed upon procedures for electing leaders by vote, and think it might be okay to throw away the Democratic process and Ginny up some excuse to get what you want. I think that the Democratic process should be respected and that for better or for worse he should be accepted as the President. I think the impeachment exists explicitly to remove Presidents who commit criminal acts. Thinking that he is a bad President or “does not have a plan” does not constitute a criminal act. Impeaching Bush for this reason you’ve stated means that you will have to search for a criminal act that you can use as a pretense for impeachment, or you will have to fabricate one. I think that’s an abuse equally as distasteful as accusing a spouse of beating you so that you can get more money in a divorce. You are subverting the law to your own ends. I have long thought that many on the left have sought or fabricated scandals against this President for similar motivations, or simply to regain power. I’m just surprised that it has gotten to the point where people no longer try to hide the fact that that’s what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/14 "2006-07-21T04:47:26Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Nope. Not in [April](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368817&highlight=impeach), not in [February](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=360629&highlight=impeach), not [three years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=170136&highlight=impeach), and not in [2002](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=125662&highlight=impeach) either. And those were just the ones with “impeach” in the title… Very nice, **Garfield** , very nice. I think that says everything that needs to be said about this OP. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/15 "2006-07-21T04:47:49Z")
The 25th Amendment allows for removal due to incompetence: > [@](#): > > Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. > > Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office. There’s literally no chance of that happening, and it would not be within the bounds of the intent of the drafters of the amendment to remove the President because he’s a moron, but this amendment as written provides for a means for it to happen without impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/16 "2006-07-21T04:50:00Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Impeaching Bush for this reason you’ve stated means that you will have to search for a criminal act that you can use as a pretense for impeachment, or you will have to fabricate one. > > I think that’s an abuse equally as distasteful as accusing a spouse of beating you so that you can get more money in a divorce. You are subverting the law to your own ends. > > I have long thought that many on the left have sought or fabricated scandals against this President for similar motivations, or simply to regain power. Blowjob. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/17 "2006-07-21T04:51:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Interesting. You propose subverting the Democratic electoral process simply because you do not agree with the result? Don’t speak of that as if it ran against the democratic principle. Many state constitutions provide for recall elections. Unfortunately, the federal constition does not. If only incompetence were an impeachable offense . . . ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/18 "2006-07-21T04:53:48Z")
On an upward note, you guys can appearently get anti-Bush bumperstickers by simply clicking on the (2) links in the advertising section. 😛 As for the OP…give it up already guys. The odds of it happening in the time he has left are vanishingly small at this point. Focus on what you will do NEXT time…unless you want yet another Republican running the shootin match again. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/19 "2006-07-21T04:53:54Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Blowjob. Well, no. Actually “Perjury.” I am however, on record multiple times on these boards as stating that the attempt to ramrod Clinton on a pretext was a bad thing that I disagreed with, though I was not a fan of Clinton. I think it’s a bad idea still. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442/20 "2006-07-21T04:54:16Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > The 25th Amendment allows for removal due to incompetence. Well, to be fair, it provides for removal if the president is “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office” **at all,** not **competently.** At least, that’s how I read it. I.e., the prez would have to be clinically insane or non-communicative or comatose for that clause to apply. Just being an America-destroying dumbass doesn’t rise to that level. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-impeach-bush-for-incompetence/365442.md?page=2)