# Is it time to leave yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 30, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748 "2018-10-30T22:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/21 "2018-10-30T23:57:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That must be tough for you. A little. I consider them treasonous. Perhaps disenfranchisement would a suitable remedy. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/22 "2018-10-30T23:58:16Z")
All of\* two years ago\*, Barack Obama was the President of the United States. But clearly the country is now on an inevitable path to ruin. :dubious: I remember after the 2008 election liberal Democrats were elated that we had turned the course of history and that conservative Republicans would never again be in power. I’m sure there were people on the other side lamenting the ruin of the country. Back then, I predicted that we would elect a Republican president in either 2016 or 2020. And here we are. Just as we have economic cycles in this country, we have political cycles. If I am personally threatened to the point where I do not feel safe, I will leave. But we are a long, long way from that point. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/23 "2018-10-31T00:00:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is a delusional post. Haven’t been reading the news much, have you? Trump supporters (which is a distinct subset of conservatives in general) haven’t been at all shy about cheering for their leader’s various outlandish statements that absolutely call for charming things like second amendment solutions. Which is to say murder, you know. Plus there are tiny hints that persons of color are being invited to not be present, thanks muchly. But, as noted, I don’t really have to worry about that. I’m white! And male! And straight! Whee! Not to mention, I do benefit from the aforementioned fact that conservative in solidly red states aren’t as riled as people who in places that are more swinging. They know they have folks like me thoroughly cowed, so they’re calm. It’s where they have to deal with the _other_ that things, reportedly, get nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/24 "2018-10-31T00:00:57Z")
Not yet. I’ve researched contingency plans and have some notions. Like **begbert2** , I struggle to find reasons to stay and will struggle more if the mid-term elections don’t validate my optimism and faith in the basic decency of Americans. I was so touched today at the sight of all the singing, peaceful protesters in Pittsburgh. More of that, please. If things continue down this bad track, I’ve nothing that especially ties me to the USA. Several friends have already transitioned to foreign lands and their experiences/trail blazing will be invaluable if I decide to move abroad. I’d prefer to stick around if I can, though. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/25 "2018-10-31T00:08:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Haven’t been reading the news much, have you? Trump supporters (which is a distinct subset of conservatives in general) haven’t been at all shy about cheering for their leader’s various outlandish statements that absolutely call for charming things like second amendment solutions. … I believe you’ve mixed up the source of the “Second Amendment solutions” quote. However, I’m open to the possibility that it is me that is mistaken. To resolve the confusion, I’ll ask you for a cite for “their leader’s various outlandish statements that absolutely call for charming things like second amendment solutions”. What statements, specifically, are you referring to here? Did they use the phrase "Second Amendment solutions? Were they spoken by President Trump or someone else? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/26 "2018-10-31T00:14:52Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > All of\* two years ago\*, Barack Obama was the President of the United States. But clearly the country is now on an inevitable path to ruin. :dubious: > > I remember after the 2008 election liberal Democrats were elated that we had turned the course of history and that conservative Republicans would never again be in power. I’m sure there were people on the other side lamenting the ruin of the country. Back then, I predicted that we would elect a Republican president in either 2016 or 2020. And here we are. > > Just as we have economic cycles in this country, we have political cycles. If I am personally threatened to the point where I do not feel safe, I will leave. But we are a long, long way from that point. YOU might be. Are you Jewish, Muslim, gay, or anything other than white? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/27 "2018-10-31T00:17:35Z")
well the problem is in the 60s there were well things like the weathermen black panthers ect that kept things going too far but now anyone who would join finds it easier to sell drugs …… I foresee an okc catastrophe or two happening before things get rational again on either side ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/28 "2018-10-31T00:18:59Z")
I wonder what the ratio of threats to move to Canada vs actual moves to Canada really is. 100 to 1? 1,000 to 1? 100,000 to 1? It’s probably closer to this last one in the Internet age. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/29 "2018-10-31T01:05:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What’s upsetting you most? Record GDP growth? North Korea scaling back their nuclear saber rattling? lowest unemployment in half a century? reduced taxes and increased tax revenue? acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and putting our embassy there? Renegotiating NAFTA? Cancelling the mail agreement with China that was made back in the 60’s to help them economically? Screening people more thoroughly from hostile countries? Talking Germany into building dock facilities for liquefied natural gas as a hedge against Russian energy influence that’s plagued countries like Poland? . . . No, those aren’t it. Two more guesses. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/30 "2018-10-31T01:23:01Z")
Some interesting replies. As far as moving to a blue state goes, I moved away from a blue state to get away from the crowds, high cost of living and high taxes. How would moving back there help me deal with what’s going on in Washington DC? We live in a kleptocracy right now, or at best an oligarchy. Our president lies CONSTANTLY. If 40% of the country is okay with that then I don’t belong here. People in California and New York like to think they aren’t part of the US, but they are. They can only insulate themselves so much. I’m not LGBTQ, poor or black/brown, and I own guns, so I don’t see them coming after me anytime soon, but I do see them rounding up some people and putting them in concentration camps, and I won’t stand by and endorse it by doing nothing. We just sent 7,000 troops to our southern border to stop people from legally applying for political asylum. So it’s either close my eyes and ignore what is going on or leave, and you can only close your eyes for so long. If the GOP wins the midterms that proves this isn’t the country I thought it was and I will start creating an exit strategy. I have the skills to move to Canada, at least for a few years and see what happens. If the pendulum swings back to “normal”, great, I can move back. When they start taking away my social security benefits that I have been paying into for 40 years that will be the last straw. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/31 "2018-10-31T01:24:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What’s upsetting you most? Record GDP growth? North Korea scaling back their nuclear saber rattling? lowest unemployment in half a century? reduced taxes and increased tax revenue? acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and putting our embassy there? Renegotiating NAFTA? Cancelling the mail agreement with China that was made back in the 60’s to help them economically? Screening people more thoroughly from hostile countries? Talking Germany into building dock facilities for liquefied natural gas as a hedge against Russian energy influence that’s plagued countries like Poland? > > The changes in the last 2 years have been substantial in a positive way despite an unrelenting demonization of Trump. If this bothers you then it makes sense for you to leave. The real world awaits you and a sincere “all the best”. There’s a phrase for people who support white supremacists because they lowered taxes. It’s “people who support white supremacists”. I wonder how small your tax break would have to be before you opposed kidnapping children and putting them in internment camps. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/32 "2018-10-31T01:27:27Z")
You can’t just "move to Canada.’ It’s not that easy ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/33 "2018-10-31T01:38:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You can’t just "move to Canada.’ > > It’s not that easy How many troops are on your border? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/34 "2018-10-31T01:41:14Z")
The other alternative is to quit reading the media. Out of sight, out of mind… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/35 "2018-10-31T01:48:28Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > There’s a phrase for people who support white supremacists because they lowered taxes. It’s “people who support white supremacists”. This is why the Democratic party struggling. Calling Trump a white supremacist a bigoted load of nonsense. Grow a real platform and stop the hate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/36 "2018-10-31T01:51:17Z")
Trump’s a white supremacist, I’m not a Democrat, and no. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/37 "2018-10-31T02:08:58Z")
Looking at political polls and age, it seems like each younger generation is less republican than the one before it. The silent generation is more republican than the boomers. The boomers are more republican than Gen X. Gen X is more republican than millennials. [![](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2018/03/030118_1_1.png) ](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2018/03/030118_1_1.png) I’m hoping as the older silent generation die off and the boomers start dying off, politics will start to become more sane. My impression is that it is white people over 50 who are behind a lot of this insanity. Angry old white people who can’t handle losing their position as the center of the universe. But then again, their kids could be just as bad. Who knows. Also as others have said, the rise of fascism is going on all over the world. Brazil just elected a far right winger as president. Maybe leaving won’t let you escape, the next country could be just as bad. IMO, it’d be better to move to a blue state within America. They will insulate you from much of the insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/38 "2018-10-31T02:11:05Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Trump’s a white supremacist, I’m not a Democrat, and no. Yes, well that would explain the US embassy in Jerusalem and acknowledgment it’s the capital of Israel. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/39 "2018-10-31T02:11:49Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > How many troops are on your border? How pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/40 "2018-10-31T02:13:43Z")
If I had children, I would encourage them to leave for Canada or Europe. But I don’t. I’m middle age. I was born here, and I’m dying here. The way I look at it, moving only ensures that you can’t fix what’s broken. And America’s broken, and like it or not, the world can’t afford to have an America that’s broken. In the short run, I’m an alarmist – okay I’m bat-shit insane. But over the long-term, I think America can be a part of something good, if not the genesis of it. People always shit on about Millennials and the post-2000 generation. I think they’re better than mine, Gen-X. I hope so. It’ll be up to them to save the planet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748.md?page=3)