# Is it time to leave yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 30, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748 "2018-10-30T22:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/81 "2018-10-31T05:24:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If I had children, I would encourage them to leave for Canada or Europe. [“The American Dream has moved to Canada.” Here are the numbers.](https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-american-dream-moved-to-canada/) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/82 "2018-10-31T07:47:07Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > How many troops are on your border? Enough. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/83 "2018-10-31T09:10:00Z")
**Mod Hat On** Do not accuse posters of being trolls, even obliquely. You are not in the Pit. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Yes, stay, if nothing else to piss of the likes of the trolls we’ve seen come out in this thread and celebrate all things Trump across the nation. > > I say this as an ex-Republican, but today’s party is not the party I was part of. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/84 "2018-10-31T12:10:00Z")
I’ll stay and fight. I’m too old to run. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/85 "2018-10-31T12:27:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What makes you think they (/we?) want to leave? There was certainly enough talk of secession from people on the right just a few years back. Oh wait, that’s when an intelligent, capable **black** guy was President. Now that the office is back in the hands of a white man, they want to stay, even though this particular white man is a drooling, hate-filled retard. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/86 "2018-10-31T12:36:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’ll stay and fight. I’m too old to run. Even if I could leave, damned if I’d do anything **but** stay and fight. Nobody would consider me a patriot. I’m a Christian, and I serve a Lord who loves everybody on this whole crazy planet; giving my allegiance to one nation, one part of this planet, is to me a fundamental contradiction of my faith. I’m aware that other Christians don’t see it that way, but it’s never made sense to me: this is the only way I can see it. But I love this country very deeply. I’ve lived here for all of my 64 years. These are my roots. Hell, it’s been 20 years since I moved to Maryland, but I still think of myself as a Virginia expat because I spent all but a few small parts of my first 44 years in Virginia. I still know and understand Virginia better than I do Maryland. The exact same thing would be true, only on a larger scale, if I were to move to another country. So fuck that shit. I’m staying here, and fighting the madness that has afflicted this country. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/87 "2018-10-31T13:00:25Z")
Realistically, I never thought of leaving. Mainly just too comfortable and lazy. My stuff, my people, and everything I’m familiar with is here. Also, as others have said, being older, financially secure, reasonably healthy, white, most of my injuries are to my “values”, rather than my person. When I’m feeling optimistic, I focus on the consistently positive trends of American policies over past decades. Sure, there could be a LOT more progress on civil rights and environmental issues, but I have to wonder at the progress made over my lifetime (born in 60). I try to reassure myself that progress is rarely continual and uninterrupted, and I hope our present times are merely a temporary step back preparing for greater eventual progress. But most of the time, I perceive the eventuality of the US (and Europe) becoming less and less influential in the world, as all manner of wealth transfers to Asia to reflect population and investment/development trends. If the West is to retain anywhere NEAR it’s current (past?) influence, then it ought to exercise foresight and aggressive policies embracing multinationalism - which I do not readily see. Instead of just trying to throw its weight around backed by US arms and a willingness to take on additional debt. I should note that - in many (most?) instances, progress occurs despite the efforts of Dems as much as Repubs, as both are beholden to weath as they are funded by much the same deep pockets. And I have a hard time identifying what exactly are American “values.” Intolerance? Waste? Sloth? Fear? But to the extent America is on track to face economic and/or social stress, my kids and grandkids are likely to face far greater pain than I. I hope their generations are more respectful of THEIR descendants than mine has been. Sorry for the aside. At times I dream about going somewhere else, but in the end, I’m too lazy, and not comfortable that any place would be - on balance - better than the US. Yeah, intolerant, ignorant conservatives are irritating, but I’m able to live a pretty comfortable life w/o them detracting from the quality of my life overmuch. And, even if Canada would take me - it’s too cold! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/88 "2018-10-31T13:50:05Z")
I would love to move to Mexico or Belize. I still have about 16 years until retirement though, and I don’t know how I could realistically make it work until then. I’ve been talking about emigrating for years. My wife used to roll her eyes. Lately though she has inferred that it’s not such a bad idea. Maybe by the time I retire, she’ll be fully on board. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/89 "2018-10-31T14:33:57Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Paying off a porn star with campaign funds? Enriching himself through elected office? This could be fun. But it might take down the server. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/90 "2018-10-31T14:33:58Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [The Yukon homesteading link.](http://www.emr.gov.yk.ca/agriculture/agriculture_land.html) Thanks Muffin. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/91 "2018-10-31T15:11:06Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Nobody would consider me a patriot. … > But I love this country very deeply. That qualifies you as a patriot IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/92 "2018-10-31T16:19:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I know some people that said similar things at the end of the Bush Administration / beginning of the Obama Administration. That lasted … what … 2 years? Bush, like Trump, came in second place. How many more times do you think the Republicans will be able to get away with that? The Republican party is on artificial life support and needs all kinds of political tricks to stay in power because it lacks a genuine majority; the electoral college, gerrymandering districts, voter id laws, rigged voting machines, voter roll purges, Supreme Court decisions. And every election they have to push it further to make up for their lack of actual popular support. How much further can they go? ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/93 "2018-10-31T17:02:21Z")
You are not making sense. The only reason to leave is if it affects you and your family personally. Otherwise leaving doesn’t help anyone. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > … and I won’t stand by and endorse it by doing nothing. So you will leave, which will ensure that you can’t do anything, because you are now in another country. In the meantime, the causes you believe in will not have changed one bit. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > So it’s either close my eyes and ignore what is going on or leave, and you can only close your eyes for so long. 😕 Do the “bad things” stop if you leave? Do they even cease being on the news? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/94 "2018-10-31T17:45:46Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Threat? “I’m gonna move to Canada!” > > You call that a threat? > > Where’s that fellow Commonwealther Crocodile Dundee when you need him? Threat, promise, claim, prediction, statement, insert your label of choice here, whatever you want to call it isn’t really relevant to the point I was making. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/95 "2018-10-31T17:56:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Bush, like Trump, came in second place. How many more times do you think the Republicans will be able to get away with that? The Republican party is on artificial life support and needs all kinds of political tricks to stay in power because it lacks a genuine majority; the electoral college, gerrymandering districts, voter id laws, rigged voting machines, voter roll purges, Supreme Court decisions. And every election they have to push it further to make up for their lack of actual popular support. How much further can they go? Doing my best Harry Reid impression: “They can call it whatever they want. [Gore / Kerry / Hillary] didn’t win did [they]?” I’m not even remotely worried that I’m “going to spend the rest of [my] life in a country run by Democrats.” Your party simply is not competent enough to pull off the streak of electoral victories that would likely be necessary to make that prediction come true. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/96 "2018-10-31T18:00:33Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > You are not making sense. The only reason to leave is if it affects you and your family personally. If you wait until you’re actually being harmed, it’s usually too late. Leaving makes sure that the problems don’t affect you and yours directly. Now, don’t get me wrong. I think it’s too early for that. But a contingency plan would be a good idea, if you can afford it. I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/97 "2018-10-31T19:37:18Z")
Funny, my husband and I have talked about this a few times. He became a citizen in 2012 specifically so he could vote in the elections then. We’re going to stay, but we will likely encourage our kids at least to travel extensively if not move somewhere else when they’re old enough. Every time I think of this question, I think of this scenario in my husband’s swearing in as a citizen. This guy who was sworn in told the judge, “When I was a little boy, I was denied citizenship in the Ukraine because I was born in Russia. I moved to Russia as a refugee and was denied citizenship there because I wasn’t the right faith. I came the United States, and for the first time I have been welcomed with open arms. I am so proud to live here, so proud of my freedom. Next month, I will vote in my first election, and I can’t wait.” (It was in October.) He hugged the judge and both of them were in tears by the time he sat down and he shook everyone’s hands there on the way back to his seat. Then I think of Trump. And the xenophobia from the right. And I remember the little girl who asked my daughter this week when she’d be deported because she’s brown. And then this weekend and I wonder if he still feels that way and regrets becoming a citizen the same way my husband sometimes does. And I wonder if he’s as disgusted and dismayed by his leaders as I am. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/98 "2018-10-31T19:53:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Doing my best Harry Reid impression: “They can call it whatever they want. [Gore / Kerry / Hillary] didn’t win did [they]?” If Harry Reid was smarter, he would have been trying to figure out why the Democrats get more votes than the Republicans do. That’s a sign the Republicans are heading in the wrong direction. So I’m not worried. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/99 "2018-10-31T21:16:11Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > You should cite your facts. Separating children from adults at the Border? Obama started it and used it for 8 years. Why? Because smugglers claimed children as their own with NO familial connection. Do you support sex traffickers having an easier time entering the U.S. ? You should cite your facts. Also quit pretending you care about sex crimes. When supporters of Roy Moore, Donald Trump and Brett Kavanaugh pretend they care about sex crimes, morality and decency it is a slap in the face to people who actually do care about these things (and aren’t just using them as a political wedge issue). > **[Trump’s separation of immigrant families wasn't Obama policy](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/)** > > Critics of the Trump administration’s separating of families illegally crossing the U.S. border with Mexico have charact > [@](#): > > Immigration experts we spoke to said Obama-era policies did lead to some family separations, but only relatively rarely, and nowhere near the rate of the Trump administration. (A Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman said the Obama administration did not count the number of families separated at the border.) > > “Obama generally refrained from prosecution in cases involving adults who crossed the border with their kids,” said Peter Margulies, an immigration law and national security law professor at Roger Williams University School of Law. “In contrast, the current administration has chosen to prosecute adult border-crossers, even when they have kids. That’s a choice — one fundamentally different from the choice made by both Obama and previous presidents of both parties.” > > Denise Gilman, a law professor who directs the immigration clinic at the University of Texas School of Law, said immigration attorneys “occasionally” saw separated families under the Obama administration. > > “However, these families were usually reunited quite quickly once identified,” she said, “even if that meant release of a parent from adult detention.” > > In Trump’s case, family separations are a feature, not a bug, of the administration’s border policies, said David Fitzgerald, who co-directs the Center for Comparative Immigration Studies. > > “The family separations are not the small-scale collateral consequences of a border policy, but rather, a deliberate initiative,” he added. > > Former Obama officials in recent interviews drew sharp distinctions between Trump’s policy and that of his predecessors. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748/100 "2018-10-31T21:54:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In an odd way, conservatives in blue states and liberals in red states can be more diehard than when on their own home turf. I saw surprisingly vigorous support for Trump in Massachusetts in 2016, but in many months of living in Texas still can’t recall seeing a Trump bumper sticker or yard sign here. Maybe they’re just not necessary. No need to advertise something that everyone already has. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-leave-yet/823748.md?page=6)