# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/512 "2024-11-27T20:37:32Z")
And to tie all that back to the thread topic, the woke position is to treat all immigrants - migrants, asylum seekers, people wanting a better life, whether they cross at an official border crossing or come into the country illegally - humanely and with dignity. The MAGA plan is to be humiliating and degrading and otherwise unpleasant, nominally to discourage the process, but also just because they can. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/513 "2024-11-27T20:39:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At the risk of derailing the thread, there are numerous nations that are arguably **more** sexist than the USA - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Mexico etc. - that have already had a woman as their national leader. The gender factor does not play a major role in 2016 or 2024, IMHO. How many of them were directly elected in a national referendum? I don’t know all the finer points of parliamentary governments, but I don’t think many prime ministers are elected by the people. They’re appointed by the party, the head of state, or become prime minister through some other method. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/514 "2024-11-27T20:54:14Z")
I can say that for Pakistan, the head of the party is the dominating factor in voting decisions. The party must win a majority (or plurality with potential for a majority coalition) in the legislature, but the personality of the party leader is the driving force for most constituencies, outside of hardcore party loyalists. That being said, the parties can become some kind of family fiefdoms. Benazir Bhutto was the daughter of the lionized Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, considered a martyr by many. Same for Sheikh Hasina in Bangladesh and Sirimavo Bandaranaike in Sri Lanka to a great extent. India Gandhi “inherited” the Congress Party from her father (and her son from her). ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/515 "2024-11-27T20:59:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t know all the finer points of parliamentary governments, but I don’t think many prime ministers are elected by the people. …they are as much “elected by the people” as the President of the United States is, via a flawed, imperfect system that often really doesn’t reflect the “will of the people.” The electoral college and the other shenanigans in the US system is basically a binary system. Only two candidates will _ever_ be viable. And a “woke” candidate wouldn’t even make the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/516 "2024-11-27T21:06:49Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > There is some concern over a porous, open border, in that it does not allow scrutiny of who is entering, and makes immigration law enforcement more challenging. Not screening for terrorists is concerning. True but that’s part of the misinformation. While there are a mix of routes, including tunnels, most illicit drugs are smuggled the country through major ports of entry (air or sea) via ostensibly legal means, though obviously undeclared. While the security concerns are real, they are, for political reasons, overblown with respect to the immigration debate. If we actually want to stem the flow of smuggled goods, including drugs, beef up screening and security for cargo ships and planes. For the most part, it’s a ton of misinformation covering a tiny kernel of truth. And many of the ones peddling the misinformation know it but don’t care, because it’s easy to get people to blame brown people but hard to get them to care about port security funding. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/517 "2024-11-27T21:07:58Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > You hate conservatives for their bigotry? Fine; they’ll hate you back. For what, our _non_-bigotry?? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/518 "2024-11-27T21:10:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > You hate conservatives for their bigotry? Fine; they’ll hate you back. They’ll hate everyone else no matter what we do; hate _is_ what they are all about. Even if we all killed ourselves they’d hate our memories. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/519 "2024-11-27T21:15:42Z")
It’s also easier to constantly remind us of the profound tragedy of the death of [**Laken Riley**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laken_Riley) and the Fentanyl deaths caused by Others (them = supply; us = demand) than it would be to discuss the 40,000+ annual firearms deaths in the US. [Because “‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens” --The Onion] Those names wouldn’t be very legible if we printed them all on T-shirts, though I’ve often thought that the House Democrats should divvy up the names – even just the ‘mass shootings’ victims – on T-shirts spread out across their membership. But … guns … 'Murica … flag … cheap beer … pickup truck that rolls coal … \<\> “Woke.” Or something like that. I’m still not entirely clear. NB: I’m _not_ turning this into a firearm thread. Just pointing out more of the interminable hypocrisy associated with today’s Republicans and this ‘woke’ crap. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/521 "2024-11-27T21:24:32Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011921/5): > > Poster 100: ok maybe the right wing has co-opted the term woke. But should we address issues A,B, or C that the electorate is concerned about? You ignore all the people who pointed out that those “issues” are based on Republican lies. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/523 "2024-11-27T21:36:28Z")
…do we have a consensus yet? Have we defined woke? Am I woke? Or am I not sufficiently mean? When people describe the “woke playbook” is it the same one in the Social Justice Charter? Because this thread is all over the place at the moment. The Banquet Bear is _aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues_. Thats what I consider woke to be. I will forever be the defender of the marginalised and the people at the bottom of the ladder. Trans rights are human rights. Defund the police. Critical race theory. Free Palestine. That’s who I am. That’s what _woke is_. We seem to be dancing around the topic. Not wanting to tackle it head on. We are speaking in code words. But this is what woke is. So do you want me to tone it down or what? Because I barely anyone has actually said “defund the police” or any variation of that talking point since late 2021. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have made it toxic. We’ve already had to tone it down…and _not by choice_. Protests around the world are getting smashed up, but only protests for certain groups. Support Gaza? You are going to get smashed up. Support Hitler and white supremacy? You might even get the keys to the city. So what do you want me to do? Do we, the woke, _shut up_? Just roll with it? Because the non-woke were in charge of the Democrats this time, and they shut the woke down, and the election was a disaster. Why should we continue to trust them? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/524 "2024-11-27T21:42:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Do we, the woke, _shut up_? That’s the idea. Shut up, keep your head down, don’t complain if you get persecuted or killed. The way everyone the rightists hate (which is most people) are always expected to act by them. That way they can pretend people other than themselves don’t exist, and kill anyone who gets out of line without resistance. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/525 "2024-11-27T21:44:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s the idea. Shut up, keep your head down, don’t complain if you get persecuted or killed. …right. Gotcha. So I’m not gonna shut up then 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/527 "2024-11-27T22:01:27Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011921/7): > > Nobody wants to kill you. Naked links like that are agaisnt the rules, I think. And of course the Right wants to kill them. The Right wants to kill a _great many_ people, and kills LGBTQ people on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/529 "2024-11-27T22:08:47Z")
…who are you talking to, and who is engaging in hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/530 "2024-11-27T22:11:10Z")
I think it’s the standard, “Don’t be silly, the people who say they want to kill you and have been killing people like you for centuries don’t _really_ want to kill you.” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/531 "2024-11-27T22:16:07Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > The loudest anti-immigrant bigot in our neck of the woods is a Russian immigrant. An anti-communist pro-Putin Russian immigrant. She ran for a state legislature seat and lost. For 20+ years, I lived in a neighborhood filled with people who came from what used to be the USSR. There was no regular supermarket within walking distance. I could walk to a Russian market, and I did the majority of my grocery shopping there. I took great pride in the fact that voter turnout was higher in much higher in my neighborhood than it was in most of Philly. It was because all the people who came from the USSR were so happy to be able to vote in free and meaningful elections. I ask in complete (and utterly bewildered) seriousness- How does some one like that come to support Putin? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/533 "2024-11-27T22:17:19Z")
Please, please- learn to use the quote function. It is not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/534 "2024-11-27T22:21:49Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011921/9): > > The current exchange between myself and a couple others is an example. > > Poster 300: maybe we should cool it. > > posters 301 and 302: Poster 300 wants to kill me. Except that’s _not_ what anyone said. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/535 "2024-11-27T22:23:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except that’s _not_ what anyone said. Exactly. @goodkitty , can you provide a quote from this thread where someone accused you of wanting to kill them? If you can’t, then you’re engaging in hyperbole, which is exactly what you’re accusing others of doing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/536 "2024-11-27T22:27:27Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1011921/9): > > Poster 300: maybe we should cool it. > > posters 301 and 302: Poster 300 wants to kill me. …who are you talking about? Or are you simply being hyperbolic? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=27)