# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/42 "2024-11-15T16:45:36Z")
And though I’ve posted it on other threads, to me it seems important enough to repost on threads where it’s applicable. On this one, it also comports nicely with what some others are saying: Here’s the GOP Fear and Faith platform in a nutshell. These are the lies the right spreads about the left. None of this has any relationship to Democratic policy proposals or planks in the party platform: \*They’re turning this country socialist – like Venezuela \*They’re giving this country over to illegals and brown people \*They’re going to ban your guns and your religion \*They’re teaching your children to be ashamed of their race, their heterosexuality, and their ethnicity \*They’re turning your cities into war-torn cesspools \*Your children are utterly not safe in Librul 'Murica \*You won’t be able to buy a 17 ounce fountain drink \*We’ll all be forced to eat nothing but kale. An In-n-Out Double Double burger will be a Felony \*They’re using Agenda 21 to force us all to live in cramped barracks and drive Smart cars or (GASP!) EVs \*Anthony Fauci is going to sedate you, Bill Gates is going to inject a chip into you, and then Big Brother will own you \*You’ll pay 105% of your income in taxes \*Biden Crime Family!! \*You’ll have to marry interracial, have LGBTQ kids, and get an abortion. You’ll just _have to_ \*We’ll all be buying Cadillac Escalades for non-English speaking Welfare recipients \*They’re eating the dogs. They’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets … of the people that _live_ there \*FOR THE LOVE OF GRID … BENGHAZI !!! And I really could go on and on. They’re evil, but they’re generally not stupid. If Democrats need to reach people who are vulnerable to this kind of marketing effort, I really don’t know how they could. Whatever other qualities that cohort has, it will be hard to bypass these lizard-brain, existential issues to talk intelligently to them about the reality of “their economic interests.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/43 "2024-11-15T16:47:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again: it doesn’t take a few fringe leftist radicals. There are zero Haitians eating people’s pet cats, and there are zero schools performing genital surgeries. _When people are lying about you, stop focusing on getting them not to lie about you_. There is no way to get them to stop shouting about the Woke Left, so don’t bother trying. **Try something else instead.** What is that proposed something-else? Everything that could be tried, has been tried. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/44 "2024-11-15T16:50:35Z")
> **Hidden by What Exit?, please no replies.** > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > Everything that could be tried, has been tried. > > Being that this is GD, could I impose upon you to cite your source for that assertion? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/46 "2024-11-15T16:51:14Z")
**Warning for** @Velocity Do not change the text in a poster’s quote without making it clear. That including bolding words. Do not ignore Moderator instructions to stay on-topic. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Being that this is GD, could I impose upon you to cite your source for that assertion? No, do not reply to this. I’m trying to discourage his hijacking. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/48 "2024-11-15T17:04:49Z")
I’ve certainly had problems with leftist people who make it difficult to impossible to bring up all sorts of subjects without them going off on you. Who become enraged at talk about curing paralysis and other disabilities (it’s “ableism”), who accuse people of antisemitism for calling fantasy rat-people rats, who complain about the “coding” of imaginary cultures, who demand that you consume no media that has even a single bad person involved in making it. And yes, I’d like them to tone it down. But none of that has anything to do with elections. The people who complain about “wokeness” aren’t complaining about what the actual far left says, not even when they provide potentially good material. I’ve seen all sorts of rhetoric from the Far Left that would make good propaganda fodder for the Right, but it doesn’t matter because the Right isn’t looking. The Right _just makes things up._ “It is time to tone down ‘wokeness’” and “how can we win elections against the Right” are _separate issues._ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/49 "2024-11-15T17:09:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > So, fuck no, Democrats and anyone else who actually cares about justices and liberty and equality and all that ‘shit’ should not forget about the past in order to ‘win elections’, and they certainly shouldn’t bow before the stock strawman arguments of the o.p. because would be a meaningless and hollow victory if it doesn’t actually stand for their ostensible values, even the ones they often seek to distance themselves from in the name of political expediency. As ever, well said. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Ayup. The _truths_ about Donald Trump were _profoundly_ worse than the endless lies the RW propaganda machine daily and repeatedly told the nation about Biden and Harris. > > But the left _heard_ all of the RW lies, while the right heard _none_ of the LW truths, and what they _did_ unintentionally get wind of, they simply dismissed as ‘fake news.’ > > To ME … that’s the crux of the issue. For the most part, the rest of that strikes _me_ as stereotypical Democratic circular firing squad stuff. > > I don’t think the Democrats need to _radically_ alter their _platform._ I think they need to radically alter their communication strategy. This, too. Not time to tone down the “wokeness,” in my opinion. Time to ramp up the concept of shame. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/50 "2024-11-15T17:10:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Not time to tone down the “wokeness,” in my opinion. Time to ramp up the concept of shame. I really like this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/51 "2024-11-15T17:14:06Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > But I still find the pointless woke bitching about history trend irritating. And I don’t think it’s helping the progressive cause. So what _does_ help the Progressive cause, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/52 "2024-11-15T17:21:50Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > Not time to tone down the “wokeness,” in my opinion. Time to ramp up the concept of shame. > > I really like this. Me, too. I am not, however, convinced of its utility. Another “I’ve posted it on another thread” comment… _“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”_ –John Kenneth Galbraith Trump – like other RW demagogues – has tremendous appeal to the mouth-breathers, because he tells them that they shouldn’t have to care about less fortunate people, the planet, the environment, or minorities. He doesn’t ask them to be ‘better people’ in any way, shape or form, the way that most past Presidents have. He encourages them to be proud of their baser instincts and worst qualities. In short, he applauds them for their “religiosity” while simultaneously absolving them from any need to actually be decent human beings. [END] Shame, IMHO and in this context, is like an antibiotic: you have to be on the right dosage of the right antibiotic for an adequate length of time or the bug may actually become stronger than before. These people don’t respond to shame. We used to leer, gape, and stare in wide-eyed wonder at the dysfunctional ‘guests’ on the Jerry Springer show. Now, we consider them for – or even elect them to – the highest offices in the land? Something is horribly broken in America, and it’s the audience for this kind of irredeemable demagoguery and jaw-dropping ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/53 "2024-11-15T17:24:21Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Not time to tone down the “wokeness,” in my opinion. Time to ramp up the concept of shame. The only problem is that [Republicans appear to have lost all concept of shame](https://youtu.be/3FaWC6LMniU?si=gRuAB6qG0kP-d0hC&t=3m16s). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/54 "2024-11-15T17:26:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Not time to tone down the “wokeness,” in my opinion. Time to ramp up the concept of shame. How exactly would that be done? That’s already been what people have been fervently trying to do. Much of the whole concept of wokeness, for instance, was all about imposing penalties on people for certain words or actions. I don’t see how you can ramp up the concept of shame when people have tried their best to ramp it up and it’s only going down. It sounds like one of those concepts of “Time to ramp up everyone’s civility, intellect and discourse” - sounds great in theory but is definitely not where the nation is headed, and has already been tried as hard as possible. There has been no shortage of people trying to ramp up the concept of shame in the last 8 years, and here we are as shame-less as ever. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/55 "2024-11-15T17:32:40Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I am not, however, convinced of its utility. Another “I’ve posted it on another thread” comment… > > _“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”_ > > –John Kenneth Galbraith > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The only problem is that [Republicans appear to have lost all concept of shame](https://youtu.be/3FaWC6LMniU?si=gRuAB6qG0kP-d0hC&t=3m16s). > [@Velocity](#): > > How exactly would that be done? I was thinking more on the micro level. Example: My stepmom used to be a delightful and tolerant person. However, under the influence of RW propaganda, she’s become inflexible, intolerant and, well, frankly, mean. It occurred to me that her father, an immigrant from Norway whom she reveres, would be deeply ashamed of what she’s allowed herself to become. I plan to mention it next time we speak. Gently and kindly, but I think I should point it out. It might have some small effect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/56 "2024-11-15T17:36:07Z")
The problem is that intolerance and hatred used to be something to be ashamed of and hidden, and now it is generally seen as just a difference of opinion-politics, if you would. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/57 "2024-11-15T17:42:30Z")
I’ve always had a problem with censoring old books in libraries. At most, I think perhaps a cautionary note on the flyleaf of something like Huckleberry Finn should be sufficient, along the lines of “This book written at a different time in our history. Some language is offensive in today’s world, but was normal back then. Consider the context.” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/58 "2024-11-15T17:45:31Z")
I agree VERY strongly with **Stranger** and **David**. I’ve posted this story before- , I mistakenly thought somebody I knew had voted Harris. I found out when I listed some of the many instances of Trump’s bigory, and he responed with “made up lies”. He said i had been ‘fed distorted media’ and needed to ‘do my own reseach’. I explained that the only news media I consumed was the local news. On the local news, I had seen unedited clips of Trump saying “Good people on both sides”, a comedian at a Trump event calling Puerto Rico “a floating island of garbage” and Vance refusing to comment on that joke or the comediaan. I said I had gotten the rest of my examples from ads for Trump, pfficially endorsed by Trump. The response ‘Why should you care? You are not Puerto Rican. I don’t care. It doesn’t affect me.’ That is what we are up against. Any accusations of Trump are “made up lies”. Any news media that does not fellate Trump is “distorted”. If the accusations against Trump can be proven, who cares? The leopard won’t eat my face. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/59 "2024-11-15T17:58:58Z")
If the American electorate were truly upset about “wokeness”, president-elect DeSantis would be making his choices for cabinet right now. In fact, the only ones with twisted knickers about it are the irredeemable MAGA crowd. If they didn’t piss and moan about “wokeness”, they’d piss and moan about something else. And they do. They still haven’t recovered from Hillary’s “deplorable” comment. Some are still stewing over Robert Bork’s rejection. Some are even upset over Marbury v Madison. Bitchers gotta bitch. The election boiled down to too many people believing a pack of lies: - The president is responsible for inflation - Government spending by Democrats causes inflation - Immigrants are coming across the border to take your jobs - The government provides unlimited free benefits to immigrants - The previous administration was the most glorious period in world history You can’t fix stupid. As long as we have stupid voters, totalitarians are free to take over. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/60 "2024-11-15T18:00:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The Democrats really need to stop emphasizing most causes that are only popularity with the minority but not the majority. Which causes specifically are you talking about? Causes that the Democrats emphasized in 2024 that are unpopular. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/61 "2024-11-15T18:13:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Breast-beating about wokeness is a massive waste of time and won’t move us one baby step closer to winning elections. Focus on something important. It also needs to be said: so-called moderates _will not reward this strategy_, and certainly no right-wingers will be converted, but it will definitely hurt Dems. No “free-thinking independent” has ever moved left in response to concessions from Dems. These people are simply stealth right-wingers who blame others for their political choices. It makes no sense whatsoever to cater to them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/62 "2024-11-15T18:29:58Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > FTR: I had to look up Hop Sing, does anyone really talk about Hop Sing of Bonanza these days? The last time I heard a reference to Hop Sing was in [a 1970s Franklin Ajaye](https://a) routine (someone from his neighborhood referred to a counterman at a local Chinese restaurant by that name in telling him to hurry up with his order). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/63 "2024-11-15T18:39:50Z")
Hate speech and talk of attacking and imprisoning one’s political enemies from the President-Elect, _and mostly made up stories about wokeness is the real problem??_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=4)