# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/708 "2024-12-01T20:26:03Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Hell, the progressive left never came up with anything close to a cohesive definition of ‘alt-right’, …the alt-right. > **[Alt-right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right)** > > The alt-right (abbreviated from alternative right) is a far-right, white nationalist movement. A largely online phenomenon, the alt-right originated in the United States during the late 2000s before increasing in popularity and establishing a presence in other countries during the mid-2010s, and has been declining since 2017.\[citation needed\] The term is ill-defined and has been used in different ways by academics, journalists, media commentators, and alt-right members themselves. > In 2010, t... Glad I could help. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Woke: A pathological over-sensitivity to any insult (real or imagined, deliberate or accidental) to identity-based human dignity, resulting in tremendously over-exaggerated perceptions of harm, an eagerness to identify and ostracise offenders, and intellectual inflexibility. Woke already has a definition. I’m woke. But I’m not whatever this is. Why co-opt the word? Can’t you come up with your own word? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/709 "2024-12-01T20:37:11Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Woke: A pathological over-sensitivity to any insult (real or imagined, deliberate or accidental) to identity-based human dignity, resulting in tremendously over-exaggerated perceptions of harm, an eagerness to identify and ostracise offenders, and intellectual inflexibility. By that definition Christian Nationalists are counted among the ‘woke’. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/710 "2024-12-01T20:37:32Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Still, since you’ve asked, how about this? > > Woke: A pathological over-sensitivity to any insult (real or imagined, deliberate or accidental) to identity-based human dignity, resulting in tremendously over-exaggerated perceptions of harm, an eagerness to identify and ostracise offenders, and intellectual inflexibility. I would say that this is a caricature of “woke” as portrayed by right-wing media and politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/711 "2024-12-01T20:56:00Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Woke: A pathological over-sensitivity to any insult (real or imagined, deliberate or accidental) to identity-based human dignity, resulting in tremendously over-exaggerated perceptions of harm, an eagerness to identify and ostracise offenders, and intellectual inflexibility. There’s still space for a more loaded definition, how about they like to drink the blood of children? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/712 "2024-12-01T20:59:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > how about they like to drink the blood of children? What else would you pair with baby meat lovers pizza? Vegetarian babies to keep it cruelty free of course. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/713 "2024-12-01T21:02:21Z")
Well to be fair, a polite white person in the 30s and 40s would use a similar definition to describe Black activists fighting against Jim Crow and lynchings. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/714 "2024-12-01T21:03:20Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Woke: A pathological over-sensitivity to any insult (real or imagined, deliberate or accidental) to identity-based human dignity, resulting in tremendously over-exaggerated perceptions of harm, an eagerness to identify and ostracise offenders, and intellectual inflexibility. Hey, let me give this a try. Evangelical Christian: someone who believes Jesus is the ultimate example to live by, then ignores every messege Jesus gave on how to treat people. Unwoke: an asshole who l likes being an asshole but hates being called an asshole. Trump supporter: see “unwoke”. Hey, this is easy. Conservative: someone with a pathological need to make fun of anyone out of the perceived mainstream, then a accuse them of being overly sensitive for daring to push back. Republican: someone who claims to stand for liberty and individual freedom and limited government, then pushes insane laws to limit the freedom of and to control others. Idiot: someone who thinks Donald Trump is on the side of the working class. I mean, these just write themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/715 "2024-12-02T00:08:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > In case you missed it: > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > > > It’s impossible to talk about wokeness in general, because people always want examples, and then only want to argue about the examples and not the larger subject. And for some reason everyone is just desperate to discuss this one in particular. > > > > Yeah, this is the wrong thread to debate details of trans policy. But I’d love to read some other examples of what you believe to be excessive wokeness. I saw. I’ve been busy all day and haven’t had time to write a long reply, and I need to go to bed soon. I’ve seem news articles and Americans complaining on Twitter about several policies that could be considered woke, but I think these are mostly under the control of state and local governments rather than the Federal government(?) I don’t really know how separate these are, how separate the average politically unaware American thinks they are, and how much attitudes bleed over from one to the other. But here are some of the biggest ones: ‘Soft on crime’ policies like ending requirements for cash bail, deciding not to prosecute crimes considered minor like shoplifting, ignoring fare evasion and traffic violations and reducing enforcement of the law in general. Especially when this leads to more disorder - I’ve seen multiple people complaining on Twitter that the public transport in their city is full of antisocial behaviour, and somewhere between unpleasant and unsafe to use. There’s a whole hell of a lot of Americans talking about how blatant the shoplifting has become, and complaining that even mundane items like toothbrushes are now locked behind glass in their local store. Laws or policies that allow homeless people to camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space, and harass people, crap in the street, and take drugs in public.This mostly seems to be a problem in California. ‘Levelling down’ policies in education, such as ending gifted and talented programs, preventing students from being promoted to a higher grade or studying subjects earlier than the norm, and dumbing down the curriculum all in the name of equity. DEI programs and policies were popular in corporations, even more popular in academia, and greatly expanded in the Federal government under Biden. These range from trainings to employee diversity targets to efforts to increase numbers of contracts awarded to minority-owned businesses, the latter two necessarily discriminating against white men and sometimes other groups too. Going back a bit, a government committee recommended vaccinating key workers before elderly people because the former group was more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, even though this was projected to lead to more deaths, and was contrary to recommendations in other countries. 2020 was a weird time. Possibly Biden’s boarder policies count, though I’m not sure how different they are from previous presidents’. I do recall Obama being significantly stricter on immigration. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/716 "2024-12-02T00:23:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good. … Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. You said in another thread that Democrats are conservatives, so shouldn’t you be quoting a boring mainstream Democrat rather than an extremist anti-abortion activist? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/717 "2024-12-02T00:31:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > policies like ending requirements for cash bail …just taking the first thing off your list, so can you be clear here: you consider this to be “excessive wokeness” and the woke need to tone down talking about this? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/718 "2024-12-02T00:49:42Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Going back a bit, a government committee recommended vaccinating key workers before elderly people because the former group was more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, even though this was projected to lead to more deaths, and was contrary to recommendations in other countries. 2020 was a weird time. This seems like yet another weird right wing manufactured thing, I do remember about key workers getting vaccines early, but they were selected not because they were sociologically diverse (I mean, the talking point from the right here implies that the elderly were not sociologically diverse? WTF?) I do remember this Item came as a recommendation from the UN, not originally from the Biden Government. > **[Key workers in 145 countries to receive COVID vaccines under UN-backed...](https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/02/1083722)** > > Key workers and other vulnerable people in 145 countries should receive COVID-19 vaccines in the first half of this year, under the joint UN-led COVAX initiative for fair access to coronavirus-beating jabs, it’s been confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/719 "2024-12-02T00:54:28Z")
Vaccinating key workers before elderly people? Key workers? Like, medical personal? Like, the main vector of contagious diseases to elderly people in assisted living housing situations? Like, nursing homes? Have the fucking woke no common sense? And, anyway, the China Virus is fake news. Hell, viruses themselves are an invention of the woke! ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/720 "2024-12-02T01:07:45Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Laws or policies that allow homeless people to camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space, and harass people, crap in the street, and take drugs in public.This mostly seems to be a problem in California. This seems to be a big reason for the significant red shift in California and NY and could be the major reason for liberal mayors and progressive DAs losing. It seems Chesa Boudin was not a one-off loss. I hope there is a middle ground on the immigration issue which also addresses voter’s worry wrt the perceived “flood of immigrants on the streets” straining the resources of cities. I hope cities like SF and NY do something wrt this issue or the democrats may continue to bleed voters even in the 2026 midterms. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/721 "2024-12-02T01:08:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Going back a bit, a government committee recommended vaccinating key workers before elderly people because the former group was more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, even though this was projected to lead to more deaths, and was contrary to recommendations in other countries. 2020 was a weird time. …can you provide a cite for this? Because generally during the vaccine rollout key frontline staff were prioritised because _they were the frontline_. They were _interacting_ with the vulnerable, doing things like _vaccinating_ them, so it made sense that they were among the first to get protected. It was certainly the way it was done here. And it wasn’t weird: it made perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/722 "2024-12-02T02:37:53Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Laws or policies that allow homeless people to camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space, and harass people, crap in the street, and take drugs in public.This mostly seems to be a problem in California. So, exactly what is your solution? Because there are simply more of them, and they have human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/723 "2024-12-02T02:48:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > Laws or policies that allow homeless people to camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space, and harass people, crap in the street, and take drugs in public.This mostly seems to be a problem in California. > > So, exactly what is your solution? Make California colder! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/724 "2024-12-02T02:49:06Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > Make California colder! Raking the forests? 🤪 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/725 "2024-12-02T02:51:17Z")
Is there still controversy in the U.K. over upper class or peerage privilege (which indisputably was a thing at one time), and over whether such privilege still exists or is alleged to still exist, and whether those allegations are legitimate or an example of “reverse discrimination”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/726 "2024-12-02T03:11:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Laws or policies that allow homeless people to camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space, and harass people, crap in the street, and take drugs in public.This mostly seems to be a problem in California. Because of the policy of treating homeless people as something to be persecuted, not because of “wokeness”. Such as, they “crap in the street” because an effort is made to keep restrooms inaccessible to them. They “camp in the middle of major cities, take over public space” because _they have nowhere else to go._ It’s the opposite of “woke”, it’s pandering to the Right. Vicious and cruel with no concern for the self-destructive consequences; as is the essence of the Right. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/727 "2024-12-02T04:04:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > Going back a bit, a government committee recommended vaccinating key workers before elderly people because the former group was more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, even though this was projected to lead to more deaths, and was contrary to recommendations in other countries. 2020 was a weird time. > > …can you provide a cite for this? Because generally during the vaccine rollout key frontline staff were prioritised because _they were the frontline_. They were _interacting_ with the vulnerable, doing things like _vaccinating_ them, so it made sense that they were among the first to get protected. It was certainly the way it was done here. And it wasn’t weird: it made perfect sense. Yeah. And it had nothing to do with diversity, and everything to do with practicality. The people who are going door to door in nursing homes shouldn’t be spreading diseases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=36)