# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/64 "2024-11-15T18:58:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > and mostly made up stories about wokeness is the real problem?? The wokeness stories that are _not_ made up are what I was complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/65 "2024-11-15T19:01:54Z")
I liken it to complaining about the mouse in the room while ignoring the rampaging elephant. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/66 "2024-11-15T19:19:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Much of the whole concept of wokeness, for instance, was all about imposing penalties on people for certain words or actions. Where did you get that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/67 "2024-11-15T19:35:12Z")
Honestly, the mere use of the word “woke” these days unfortunately says quite a bit, at least to me… ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/68 "2024-11-15T19:35:34Z")
Has anyone here actually talked to a person who voted for trump and asked them why? THe answers I get are: 1. the economy 2. the border 3. wokeness Whether or not these issues are real or true is less relevant. But those of you saying ‘wokeness’ was a minor issue…I don’t think you’ve actually talked to enough Trump voters. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/69 "2024-11-15T19:40:37Z")
When the Affordable Care Act was in the making (Late-2000’s - Obama), there were endless surveys gauging people’s opinions. ALL the opinion polls about “Obamacare” skewed strongly negative. ALL the opinion polls about the _actual components of_ the ACA skewed strongly positive. [Worth noting that the ACA is _hugely_ popular today.] What does that tell us? 1. Right-wing propaganda is a powerful thing, and 2. People can’t be bothered with reading and understanding pretty simple information. [_“A vibecession is a period of widespread pessimism about the economy regardless of the actual economic situation.”_] IMHO, Trump supporters voted based on the propaganda they heard, _in far greater numbers_ than those who voted for Trump based on the factual (and preferably quantitative) information that they _sought out_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/70 "2024-11-15T19:41:38Z")
It isn’t what they tell outsiders that is the problem, since they have been taught that winning is the _only_ thing that matters, truth be damned. Look at their rallies, go to their websites, see what they actually say and think when they feel safe enough to spew the hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/71 "2024-11-15T19:43:14Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Whether or not these issues are real or true is less relevant. But those of you saying ‘wokeness’ was a minor issue…I don’t think you’ve actually talked to enough Trump voters. This is an important point. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/72 "2024-11-15T19:43:59Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > But those of you saying ‘wokeness’ was a minor issue…I don’t think you’ve actually talked to enough Trump voters. Have you asked them what they mean by ‘wokeness’? Cause what I get from them is either get a lot of crickets or a uselessly vague hand-wavy explanation. Seems to be the classic fear of the ‘other’ (by race, gender, sexual orientation or whatever) now with new convenient label (™) that they don’t have to properly explain. And catering to the sort of person who hides their own bigotry behind a vague label is a non-starter, as far as I’m concerned. You’ll lose more votes than gain going that route, not to mention losing your soul. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/73 "2024-11-15T19:44:35Z")
What about believing what they tell you, instead of finding out what they tell each other when you aren’t around? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/74 "2024-11-15T19:48:13Z")
So…the gist of this thread is: 1. Wokeness isn’t a thing. 2. If it is, it’s trivial. 3. Abandoning wokeness would cost a lot and gain nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/75 "2024-11-15T19:48:27Z")
What about cutting off family members because they voted for Trump? Or telling others that they should cut off family members who voted for Trump? That’s not woke? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/76 "2024-11-15T19:52:03Z")
Way too reductive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/77 "2024-11-15T19:52:05Z")
Nope, it isn’t…unless “woke” means “everything I don’t like, without getting into specifics that could tie me down”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/78 "2024-11-15T19:58:43Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > ALL the opinion polls about “Obamacare” skewed strongly negative. ALL the opinion polls about the _actual components of_ the ACA skewed strongly positive. I firmly believe that the first is because of it having the name “Obama” in it. And that that is the _only_ reason that Trump wants to do away with it, so he can come up with exactly the same plan but have it called Trumpcare. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/79 "2024-11-15T20:01:09Z")
No, Obamacare is way too generous to the hoi polloi. Plus, implementing an actual comprehensive health care program is work. He’ll replace it with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/80 "2024-11-15T20:03:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Plus, implementing an actual comprehensive health care program is work. He’ll replace it with nothing. Whenever referring to Trump as “he” doing something, it should always be assumed that someone else does the actual labor and Trump takes the credit for it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/81 "2024-11-15T20:03:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So…the gist of this thread is: > > 1. Wokeness isn’t a thing. > 2. If it is, it’s trivial.2. > 3. Abandoning wokeness would cost a lot and gain nothing. 1. It’s a thing. But it bears no resemblance to what the Right calls “woke.” 2. It is trivial 3. No one would notice. They would still call immigrants eating dogs a “woke” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/82 "2024-11-15T20:03:59Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Whether or not these issues are real or true is less relevant. It’s the entire point. If “the border” isn’t a real issue, we can’t respond to it with real actions. If “wokeness” isn’t an actual problem, we can’t take actual actions to reduce it. People are worried about the border because Haitians are eating their pets. What policy action will reduce Haitian pet consumption to a level where it doesn’t worry Trump voters? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/83 "2024-11-15T20:10:59Z")
There’s also an argument against giving your enemies any more ammunition than you have to as well. I feel like wokeness wasn’t a primary driver of the election loss, but it was definitely around like a lingering fart in many people’s nostrils. And the thing is, I think political correctness/wokeness (they’re basically the same thing) has been something that is good in principle, but can be taken to what seems to many to be absurd lengths by people with axes to grind or who are virtue-signaling to other people on the Left. Part of the problem is that a lot of people assume that since one side has an agenda that they’re pushing as well as pretty tight control over what is said concerning that agenda, that the other side works that way as well. So when some professor of social justice studies in some New England all-women’s colelge gets in high dudgeon about Hop Sing in Bonanza, that other side assumes that it’s all part of this agenda that they’ve also assumed to be in place. In reality, there’s no such agenda, and that professor is basically a free agent with no actual connection to anything political. And the Democratic Party’s embrace of all this to one degree or another lends credence to this. Which is a mistake. They should draw clear boundaries about what is reasonable (preferred pronouns) and what is ridiculous (putting disclaimers at the beginning of _ **Jackass** _ reruns about how they are made with outdated and offensive social norms. I thought that was the point?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=5)