# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/848 "2025-01-21T17:53:34Z")
Moderating: > [@Lumpy](#): > > When people can be warned, issued a citation or banned for using formerly innocent and neutral words that are now “hate speech”, it gives a somewhat different perspective on just who the repressive thugs are. Backhandedly complaining about moderation outside of ATMB can also get you warned or banned. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/849 "2025-01-21T21:40:20Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > So protests across the nation about library storytime programs don’t count as data? Since most of the 49% aren’t going to the protests, it’s not particularly useful for determining mainstream opinion. You find that out by asking more detailed questions of a broad cross-section of society ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/850 "2025-01-21T21:44:52Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > When people can be warned, issued a citation or banned for using formerly innocent and neutral words that are now “hate speech” Why am I certain that we will never read a single example of any of these “neutral” words? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/851 "2025-01-21T22:13:04Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Why am I certain that we will never read a single example of any of these “neutral” words? “Disabled” comes to mind. Then it was “physically challenged”. Now, is it “differently-abled” or has that changed? I understand that “colored people” is rightfully taboo. But it seems odd that “people of color” is not. By the way, has the NAACP changed its name yet? Or is that along the lines of “only we can use this word”? I can remember certain people flipping out over the use of the word “Oriental” in a grocery store aisle. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/852 "2025-01-21T22:14:56Z")
Yeah, language changes. Imagine that! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/853 "2025-01-21T22:16:35Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > “Disabled” comes to mind. Then it was “physically challenged”. Now, is it “differently-abled” or has that changed? Has anyone been cited, warned or banned for saying “disabled?” That was the allegation. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I understand that “colored people” is rightfully taboo. But it seems odd that “people of color” is not. I don’t find it odd at all. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > By the way, has the NAACP changed its name yet? Or is that along the lines of “only we can use this word”? Really? Questions like this are why we need to become educated (woke) not less. > [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I can remember certain people flipping out over the use of the word “Oriental” in a grocery store aisle. It is a slur to call _people_ “oriental.” It’s fine for rugs or grocery store aisles. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/854 "2025-01-21T22:19:59Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It is a slur to call _people_ “oriental.” It’s fine for rugs or grocery store aisles. Yes, but people were still clutching their pearls over the grocery store usage. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/855 "2025-01-21T22:21:54Z")
Those people are easy to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/856 "2025-01-21T22:29:38Z")
Not really. They’re the Libs in “Own the Libs”. And their recreational outrage makes the rest of us Libs look bad, stupid, and silly. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/857 "2025-01-21T22:34:05Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > They’re the Libs in “Own the Libs”. I don’t know what this means. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/858 "2025-01-21T22:47:11Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I understand that “colored people” is rightfully taboo. But it seems odd that “people of color” is not. By the way, has the NAACP changed its name yet? Or is that along the lines of “only we can use this word”? [1909](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP) would like to have a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/859 "2025-01-22T02:17:42Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > “Disabled” comes to mind. _Disabled_ in not hate speech. Yes, it has been passed over for a better term, but it is still used in official circles. [https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/disability-hate-crime-and-other-crimes-against-disabled-people-prosecution-guidance](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/disability-hate-crime-and-other-crimes-against-disabled-people-prosecution-guidance) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/860 "2025-01-22T03:30:07Z")
And whatever George Carlin says, no one actually uses “handi-capable.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/861 "2025-01-22T13:41:38Z")
There are square dances advertised as “handicapable” [https://www.you2candance.com/Handicapable.php](https://www.you2candance.com/Handicapable.php) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/862 "2025-01-22T15:33:49Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I can remember certain people flipping out over the use of the word “Oriental” in a grocery store aisle. I’m not sure I believe you, at least for any reasonable meaning of “flipping out.” Are you claiming you saw people shouting? Knocking things off the shelf? Demanding a manager come RIGHT NOW and take down the display? Calling the police on the store? Cussing out the staff? Vandalizing the sign? Or did you see people making some snarky muttered criticism of the sign’s antiquated languge and decide that was “flipping out”? Or maybe people on a message board discussed whether that term ought to be retired, and that mere discussion rose to the level of “flipping out”? So many people get so melodramatic about criticism that it makes it difficult to carry on rational discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/863 "2025-01-22T16:15:00Z")
No, there wasn’t a riot, but there was television coverage of a smug, socially aware woman who became her own civil rights hero in her mind. And no, she wasn’t Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/864 "2025-01-22T16:16:45Z")
What a description! So, you saw someone on the news who objected to the term, and that’s an example of “flipping out”? And that’s the example you provided when someone else was asked about terms where > [@Lumpy](#): > > people can be warned, issued a citation or banned for using formerly innocent and neutral words that are now “hate speech” and by implication > [@Lumpy](#): > > it gives a somewhat different perspective on just who the repressive thugs are. I mean, good grief. Who exactly is the repressive thug in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/865 "2025-01-22T16:22:38Z")
Given that the woman had to take some considerable trouble to get news coverage of her valiant discovery of a new indicator of racism, I would say, yeah, she was flipping out. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/866 "2025-01-22T16:26:53Z")
That’s a completely ridiculous description, not least of which is the fact that people have been objecting to the word [since at least the 1970s](https://web.archive.org/web/20120904084158/http://journalism.nyu.edu/publishing/archives/livewire/archived/oriental_rugs_or_people/): > [@](#): > > John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in the 1970s. “With the anti-war movement in the ’60s and early ’70s, many Asian Americans identified the term ‘Oriental’ with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite ‘others,’” said Tchen. > > According to Edward Said’s book “Orientalism,” the word was used to indicate Asia at least as far back as the 1300s, but it wasn’t until relatively recently that the word sparked controversy in the United States. > > In 1991, the University of Pennsylvania still had an Oriental Studies Department that included everything from East Asian Studies to North African Languages. The school’s Asian students asserted that the term “Oriental” was racist, and after a yearlong debate about what name would encompass all the fields of study in the department, it was renamed the Department of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies. So unless you saw this interview in the 1960s, there’s no chance she “discovered” the racist implications of the word. Someone in this incident is far exaggerating the harm of words, but I’m afraid it ain’t the interviewed woman. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Gordon\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_G)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/867 "2025-01-22T16:58:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes. Speaking anecdotally, at age 36 I am hardly a “young” man by any definition anymore, but I’m actually earning less per year now than I did at age 23, adjusted for inflation, despite having been in my career for twelve years. And even when wages have kept pace with inflation, they have not kept pace with the profits flowing to many corporations. And many young-people jobs seem to be “dead ends.” Is it the dream of a KFC worker to become shift manager and earn $15/hour? These people “should” have voted for Harris; it’s a shame the messaging was so poor. As for wokeness, there’s good wokeness and wokeness gone too far. It was absurd to suspend and fine the guy who made the “look the same” joke. Absolutely stupidly absurd. And tragic, since many people, young and old, used such stupidities as a reason to vote for Trump [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=43)