# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/84 "2024-11-15T20:18:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nope, it isn’t…unless “woke” means “everything I don’t like, without getting into specifics that could tie me down”. No, cutting off your family members because they voted for Trump is not useless “woke” because you can cut off family members for being assholes, and maybe this was just the last straw. _Telling other people_ to cut off family members who voted for Trump _is_ useless woke because all you’re doing is virtue signaling. It’s the virtue-signaling that I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/85 "2024-11-15T20:18:54Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Whenever referring to Trump as “he” doing something, it should always be assumed that someone else does the actual labor and Trump takes the credit for it. Oh, well aware. But Republicans have had decades to come up with something. It’s always crickets. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/86 "2024-11-15T20:20:01Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > It’s the virtue-signaling that I’m talking about. Ok, but don’t call it “woke.” ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/87 "2024-11-15T20:21:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Ok, but don’t call it “woke.” Can I call it “useless woke”? Because it _is_ a thing, and it pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/88 "2024-11-15T20:22:03Z")
You are _definitely_ going to have give us your definition of “woke”, then. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/89 "2024-11-15T20:22:59Z")
Is there a reason you have to insert the word “woke” where it doesn’t belong? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/90 "2024-11-15T20:23:15Z")
I think he pretty much did in the OP. Try reading it again. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/91 "2024-11-15T20:23:42Z")
“Those who make reform impossible make revolution inevitable.” But the thing is: the Right prefers to stomp on revolution rather than work compromise with reform. For historical antecedent, I doubt that the Decembrist, Russian gentlemen following the Enlightenment brought there by Catherine the Great, would have anything but contempt for the bloodthirsty crackpots who were killing Czars fifty years after they themselves were stamped out. And if the US government hadn’t launched COINTELPRO, and had protected MLK in the 60s, today alienated, ignorant and overwrought young people wouldn’t be proclaiming [that white allyship is bullshit](http://blackyouthproject.com/my-refusal-to-grant-white-people-space-is-petty-and-satisfying/) today. Damn white people, inserting themselves into Black spaces (or, in the case of [Chaney Goodman and Schwerner,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Schwerner), inserting themselves into an actual dam. This “woke” thing isn’t Leftism, and it never was. It’s what happens when people of good faith are a little annoyed or outright offended by something someone they usually agree with says, and then allows someone who both parties disagree with to use it as a wedge. Rather than an abandonment of convictions, some healthy skepticism is what the Left needs now. Evergreen College 2015: a new president wants to break up the collective bargaining and administration power of the faculty. Sounds like a traditional RW motivation. But he uses “leftist” ploys to do it: demanding anti-racist self-denunciation from the faculty, siccing a mob of self-righteous kids on them, etc. And you better believe the RW dined out on that for years. Because blind ideology always plays into the hands of naked opportunism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/92 "2024-11-15T20:24:39Z")
I read it…then he used it to mean other things. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/93 "2024-11-15T20:25:20Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > put viewer discretion warnings on screenings of _Gone with the Wind_ or _All in the Family_? All in the Family was originally broadcast with a content warning in the woke days of the 1970s ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/94 "2024-11-15T20:26:01Z")
So give us your definition of woke then? Honestly that is one of the problems, many different versions of what people think “woke” means. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/95 "2024-11-15T20:26:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a reason you have to insert the word “woke” where it doesn’t belong? Because **Procrustus** , whom I was responding to, used the quotation marks. And you are framing this as a gotcha question? How useless woke of you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/96 "2024-11-15T20:27:18Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > Can I call it “useless woke”? Because it _is_ a thing, and it pisses me off. Why? How often do you directly encounter it in your life (as opposed to reading ragebait articles about it)? When was the last time someone in a face-to-face setting engaged in “useless woke” behavior around you, and why did it get to you so badly? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/97 "2024-11-15T20:27:44Z")
I don’t think it really means anything anymore, other than “I don’t like it, and that makes it woke.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/98 "2024-11-15T20:30:16Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > And you are framing this as a gotcha question? How useless woke of you. I am framing this as a question as to what your definition of the word actually is considering how you have used it in this thread…and looking at the second sentence I see that it means whatever you want it to mean. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/99 "2024-11-15T20:31:12Z")
To conservatives, woke originally meant a white person pretending to care about black/brown people issues. They know the intent isn’t genuine because they can’t comprehend people caring about issues that don’t directly effect them. Now, it’s generally a grab bag meaning social behaviors that make me think about uncomfortable topics or stuff I find icky. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/100 "2024-11-15T20:32:32Z")
I > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Why? How often do you directly encounter it in your life (as opposed to reading ragebait articles about it)? When was the last time someone in a face-to-face setting engaged in “useless woke” behavior around you, and why did it get to you so badly? I guess I find it extra irritating lately because a friend of mine advocated voting third party because of the mess in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/101 "2024-11-15T20:35:00Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > This is the sort of wokeness that lost us the election. “Wokeness” didnt cause the high inflation during the early Biden years, so no, it didnt “lose us the election”. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > It was one of many factors. Don’t give wokeness too much credit. I don’t think it was in the top 3 reasons. Inflation, misogyny, racism, anti-immigration and abortion were all bigger factors and it seems like Trans-Hate was pretty high up also. Right. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > “It’s the economy, stupid” > > I’m not a huge believer in “we must abandon our principles in order to preserve our principles”. Exactlly. But of course- anything can be taken too far. Refusing to watch classic westerns as real Native Americans werent cast in all those parts? Too far. Refusing to watch “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” due to Mickey Rooney’s part- too far- Laughing at and making fun of Mickey Rooney’s part- perfectly Okay. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > The complaints about Mark Twain’s books seem silly to me, especially as part of the “Right” also wants to ban his books. Right. Twain was a genius and an anti-racist. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Renaming US bases named for traitors (confederates) makes sense and never should have happened, but I’ve seen complaints about Theodore Roosevelt, who was extremely Progressive for the time. Now Wilson, he doesn’t get enough flak in my opinion. That was a guy who was racist for the time, not just by our standards. Right on all counts. Wilson also dragged up into a war we had no business being in. Teddy was a great president. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/102 "2024-11-15T20:37:15Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > I guess I find it extra irritating lately because a friend of mine advocated voting third party because of the mess in Gaza. That is very irritating. But I wouldn’t call it woke. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/103 "2024-11-15T20:40:13Z")
One reason wokeness is going to be impossible to find common ground on is that, like the term “political correctness,” the right takes it to mean the most outlandish behavior of a few leftist radicals, while the left takes it to mean common courtesy and anti-racism. So when the right opposes wokeness, the left thinks, “So you oppose common decency?” and when the left supports wokeness, the right thinks, “So you think LatinX is how Hispanic people should be referred to, even if Hispanics don’t want it?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287.md?page=6)