# Is it Time to Tone Down the Wokeness, Especially about the Past? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287 "2024-11-15T15:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/152 "2024-11-16T18:58:45Z")
> **Could be heading OT** > > I think it would be a bit naive for any to imagine that the _only_ thing discussed on those 7+ (post-Presidency) phone calls between Trump and Putin (and maybe Elon Musk on at least some of them) is the content of, and the price tag for, all those classified documents he took to Mar-A-Lago. > > “Anyway, Vlad, who would _you_ like to see head up the US Intelligence Community and the Pentagon?” was just a natural follow-on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/153 "2024-11-16T18:58:58Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Plenty of leftists use the word ‘fascist’ every bit as broadly as rightists use the word ‘woke’. I recall it mostly being used by Trumps chief of staff and generals. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/154 "2024-11-16T20:42:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > People are worried about the border because Haitians are eating their pets. No, it is just normal xenophobia. The US is not alone- Brexit was pushed by Xenophobia. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Plenty of leftists use the word ‘fascist’ every bit as broadly as rightists use the word ‘woke’. True, plenty of posts here calling both trump and deSantis both fascists. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/155 "2024-11-16T20:50:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > True, plenty of posts here calling both trump and deSantis both fascists. That isn’t “broad” at all. The republicans are a fascist party. And the only reason that trump isn’t personally a fascist is that he’s too narcissist to actually have an ideology about anything but himself; fascist would be a step _up_ for him. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/156 "2024-11-16T23:22:17Z")
The answer to the OP is no. Placating is never the answer. Ask Jews about placating. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/157 "2024-11-17T01:22:12Z")
Not to mention Chamberlain and the Poles. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/158 "2024-11-17T11:02:35Z")
i wasn’t referring to myself, but this virtue-shaming can be somewhat hypocritical and self-righteous (Pharisees), and then I’m reminded of what Jesus said about “ALL have sinned and come short”, and also ‘casting the first stone’ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/159 "2024-11-17T16:30:31Z")
Apropos of nothing in particular, what’s the matter with _awakened_? “Woke” is a verb. Like “drapes.” > [@fedman1](#): > > and then I’m reminded of what Jesus said about “ALL have sinned and come short”, That’s one of Paul’s, not Yeshua bin Miriam’s. Not a huge fan of Mr. Of Tarsus, me. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Plenty of leftists use the word ‘fascist’ every bit as broadly as rightists use the word ‘woke’. At least “fascist” has a discernible meaning. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/160 "2024-11-17T16:38:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Apropos of nothing in particular, what’s the matter with _awakened_? “Woke” is a verb. It’s the word chosen by African-Americans in African-American English in the 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/161 "2024-11-17T16:41:22Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > Apropos of nothing in particular, what’s the matter with _awakened_? “Woke” is a verb. > > It’s the word chosen by African-Americans in African-American English in the 1930s. May I be forgiven if I feel that, given recent events, perhaps it maybe should have stayed there (in the 1930s)? On a more somber note, it probably wouldn’t have made any difference. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Gordon\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_G)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/162 "2024-11-17T16:57:03Z")
The fascist victory on 5 November was so resounding that “wokeism” was probably not “the straw that broke the camel’s back.” Nevertheless excessive wokeism is _ridiculous_ and is a good example of how out-of-touch “progressive” trendsetters and opinion-makers are with political reality. For example, was [this image](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59bccbea2ebe392a9722dff21eb7c453-lq) _really_ so offensive that a Dr. Seuss book had to be withdrawn? I know progressives love to hate on Bill Maher, but he’d be a better choice than whoever they’re getting their messages from. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > I had heard around election time that “Latinx” was actively harming Hispanic perceptions of the Democrats. Sort of “They’re more worried about this stupid word to ‘save us’ than actually handling our economic issues”. [One poll] does say that 75% of Hispanics who are aware of “Latinx” don’t think it should be used and only 4% have adopted it. > > Sure–and most leftists I know have moved away from that term, based on the leftist principle of “for fuck’s sake call people what they want to be called already.” > > What percentage of people on the left are still using it, and what percentage of Latino/Latina voters decided to vote for Trump based significantly on that word? Wow! How _long_ did it take “leftists” to figure out the absurdity of ‘Latinx’? ‘Latino’ and ‘Latina’ have the advantage of being actual words in the Latino/Latina ( 🙂 ) language! How could ANY sane person imagine they’d prefer the unpronounceable ‘Latinx’? When the textbooks about the Fall of American Democracy are written ‘Latinx’ may be a go-to example of “leftist” stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/163 "2024-11-17T17:01:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > May I be forgiven if I feel that, given recent events, perhaps it maybe should have stayed there (in the 1930s)? No. Given it’s definition since the 1930s, or earlier, “awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans”. Given recent events it’s very clear that Black Americans need to be aware of social and political issues affecting them and it’s nice, for them, that they have a single word to refer to an entire sentence. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/164 "2024-11-17T17:07:28Z")
> [@Gordon\_G](#): > > was [this image](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59bccbea2ebe392a9722dff21eb7c453-lq) _really_ so offensive that a Dr. Seuss book had to be withdrawn? Yes. Next question. > [@Gordon\_G](#): > > How could ANY sane person imagine they’d prefer the unpronounceable ‘Latinx’? I don’t know, ask the _Hispanic_ people who came up with it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/165 "2024-11-17T17:09:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t know, ask the _Hispanic_ people who came up with it. Who are these people that they think they can use words without the White man’s permission? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/166 "2024-11-17T17:10:41Z")
> [@Gordon\_G](#): > > the unpronounceable ‘Latinx’ I used to think “Ms” was unpronounceable. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No. Given it’s definition since the 1930s, or earlier, “awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans”. > Given recent events it’s very clear that Black Americans need to be aware of social and political issues affecting them and it’s nice, for them, that they have a single word to refer to an entire sentence. I see your point. Hence my addendum about it not making any difference. Those fuckers will weaponize _anything_. > [@Gordon\_G](#): > > For example, was [this image](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59bccbea2ebe392a9722dff21eb7c453-lq) _really_ so offensive that a Dr. Seuss book had to be withdrawn? Given that (AIUI) the withdrawal was decided on by his estate? I guess that’s a decision best left up to those folks. I wouldn’t care to rub people’s faces in the fact that back in the 70s, my dad said that AIDS was God’s judgment on gay people. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/167 "2024-11-17T17:15:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Those fuckers will weaponize _anything_. Yeah, it’s not the word ‘woke’, it’s anyone acknowledging systemic issues like racism, et.al. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/168 "2024-11-17T17:22:56Z")
I propose ignoring ‘wokeness’ and valorizing (ooh, love using that word) ‘antifa’. Because there are only going to be fascists and antifascists. And of course, the many millions who dine on apathy and covering their faces. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/169 "2024-11-17T17:27:29Z")
[![](https://i.imgflip.com/3roi5h.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/3roi5h.jpg) [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPaupHFbMAA9HYv.png) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPaupHFbMAA9HYv.png) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/170 "2024-11-17T17:28:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Gordon\_G](#): > > > > was [this image](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59bccbea2ebe392a9722dff21eb7c453-lq) _really_ so offensive that a Dr. Seuss book had to be withdrawn? > > Yes. And, as usual with the way the right wing lies about “woke” things, it was the Dr. Seuss state the ones that decided to remove the book, it was not because of outside “woke” groups forcing the state but: > **[Statement from Dr. Seuss Enterprises - Seussville](https://www.seussville.com/statement-from-dr-seuss-enterprises/)** > > Today, on Dr. Seuss’s Birthday, Dr. Seuss Enterprises celebrates reading and also our mission of supporting all children and families with messages of hope, inspiration, inclusion, and friendship. We are committed to action.  To that end, Dr.... > We are committed to action. To that end, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts, including educators, reviewed our catalog of titles and made the decision last year to cease publication and licensing of the following titles: _And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street_, _If I Ran the Zoo_, _McElligot’s Pool_, _On Beyond Zebra!_, _Scrambled Eggs Super!_, and _The Cat’s Quizzer_. These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong. > > Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’s catalog represents and supports all communities and families. This is because, more consumers of the books do mind nowadays. It was in the end, a business decision. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-tone-down-the-wokeness-especially-about-the-past/1010287/171 "2024-11-17T17:29:24Z")
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