# Is it too early to say Romney has lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 18, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066 "2012-09-18T13:26:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/862 "2012-10-22T02:56:17Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’d be interested in knowing, kind sir - why a public sporting event is worthy of government help, but an organisation that is a “not for profit” helping with healthcare and advice is not worthy of government funding. I can’t wait to hear **adaher** ’s answer to this. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/863 "2012-10-22T02:58:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I can’t wait to hear **adaher** ’s answer to this. I’m thinking it will be blamed on Romnesia - but I am waiting with baited breath ready to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/864 "2012-10-22T03:36:12Z")
A country that accepts the Olympics has a responsibility to make it run. Would be pretty humiliating if the US became the first country to not hold an Olympics because we screwed it up. The only ones responsible for making sure our auto companies succeed are the auto companies. And while the bailout may have bought Obama regional votes, Americans are voting with their dollars that they’d rather not buy cars from companies on the dole. There’s a reason Ford has sought to advertise that they didn’t need a bailout, an even better reason why this infuriated the administration. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/865 "2012-10-22T08:03:19Z")
The Olympcs is _not_ a public event. The IOC is an _ **N** _GO. That N? It stands for _ **Non** _, as in Non-Governmental Organization. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/866 "2012-10-22T09:14:25Z")
I note that some right-wing group has actually sponsored an anti-Obama piece on his “failed foreign policy in Libya” which has popped up on everyone’s Facebook page. Preparing the ground for the next debate, I see. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/867 "2012-10-22T10:01:53Z")
Yep. Just like the Iran announcement prepares the debate for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/868 "2012-10-22T10:29:55Z")
Well, sure. And highlights the strengths of each party. The GOP is going with blatant lies and scare tactics because that’s all they have. The Democrats have a stronger actual foreign policy position to work from. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/869 "2012-10-22T10:48:12Z")
What Iran announcement are you talking about Adaher? You’re kinda cryptic and there’s nothing notable in the news here. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/870 "2012-10-22T11:05:08Z")
I was assuming it was the suggestion that Iran had agreed in principle to talks, although Iran is not confirming anything. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/871 "2012-10-22T11:59:28Z")
Exactly. There’s only one Iran announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/872 "2012-10-22T12:06:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A country that accepts the Olympics has a responsibility to make it run. Would be pretty humiliating if the US became the first country to not hold an Olympics because we screwed it up. Uh huh. So the conservative principles of small government and a free market are important, unless you have a REALLY GOOD REASON! Can we borrow that feckless attitude for, say, health care? Or are Democrats the only ones who should be held strictly accountable for the things conservatives claim to believe? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/873 "2012-10-22T12:10:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Exactly. There’s only one Iran announcement. The White House made no Iran announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/874 "2012-10-22T13:01:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a reason Ford has sought to advertise that they didn’t need a bailout, an even better reason why this infuriated the administration. They have done no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/875 "2012-10-22T14:01:48Z")
Ah, but they did: > **[AdSpotting: New Ford commercial slams auto bailout \[w/poll\] - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/16/adspotting-new-ford-commercial-slams-auto-bailout-w-poll/)** > > Back in 2009, at the absolute lowest point in the history of the American automobile industry, Chrysler and General Motors declared bankruptcy. The United States government set up a cabinet-level group called The Presidential Task Force On The Auto... Quote from the ad: I wasn’t going to buy another car that was bailed out by our government. I was going to buy from a manufacturer that’s standing on their own: win, lose, or draw. That’s what America is about is taking the chance to succeed and understanding when you fail that you gotta’ pick yourself up and go back to work. Ford is that company for me. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/876 "2012-10-22T14:22:53Z")
One ad that was pulled almost as quickly as it was aired. Not exactly a theme they’ve woven into their marketing plan. But I’ll give you that Ford “sought to advertise that they didn’t need a bailout.” I just now noticed the odd wording of your original statement. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/877 "2012-10-22T14:36:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Olympics is a public event. A private corporation is a different case. Some corporations failed, they got bailed out by taxpayers. Not the first time either. If I had to keep going back to the government hat in hand I’d be pretty ashamed. The difference is that the “bailout” to corporations ended up saving millions of jobs, and ensured that the economy stopped tanking and started to turn around, and actually ended up being a good investment, since much of the money was repaid. Whereas the taxpayer money that went into the Olympics saved face for the International Olympic Committee, and was not repaid. If we had it your way, there would be no auto industry in N. America anymore, and you’d be buying your next car from Japan or Korea. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/878 "2012-10-22T14:50:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And while the bailout may have bought Obama regional votes, Americans are voting with their dollars that they’d rather not buy cars from companies on the dole. That’s probably why GM posted record profits earlier this year. Things are just going terrible for them since the bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/879 "2012-10-22T15:21:38Z")
I think the Republicans would let the entire country fail. Without a government in the way, they’d be free to run a pure plutocracy or corporatocracy or whatever (what else do they think the government is ‘in the way’ of?). I think that would amount to a new Dark Ages for just about everyone not at the top. > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > That’s probably why GM posted record profits earlier this year. Things are just going terrible for them since the bailout. It is terrible to Republicans- those workers belong to unions, which protect their _rights_, goddamnit! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/880 "2012-10-22T15:52:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A country that accepts the Olympics has a responsibility to make it run. Would be pretty humiliating if the US became the first country to not hold an Olympics because we screwed it up. JFTR, **countries** don’t accept the Olympics. **Cities** make proposals to host the Olympics. In the USA, this is done, AFAICT, without any Federal involvement. So Salt Lake City put forth a great proposal and won the 2002 Winter Games. Then they realized they didn’t have the resources to back up their big mouths, so Romney stepped in and persuaded the Federal government to bail SLC out. If we as a nation were to accept your notion that “a country that accepts the Olympics has a responsibility to make it run,” that would be _carte blanche_ for any city in the country to make extravagant proposals to win the Olympics, secure in the knowledge that taxpayers around the country would open their wallets to make good on their unsupported pledges. That would be a pretty stupid way to run things, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066/881 "2012-10-22T15:53:51Z")
[Interesting view](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/19/ground-game-obama-opens-up-big-lead-in-state-headquarters.html) of how the two campaigns’ ground game compares. The state where Romney has the most offices is Florida with 48. Obama has more than 48 offices in seven states, including teeny-tiny six-electoral-vote Iowa. CO: 61 Obama offices, 14 Romney FL: 102 Obama, 48 Romney IA: 66 Obama, 13 Romney NC: 53 Obama, 24 Romney NH: 22 Obama, 9 Romney NV; 26 Obama, 12 Romney OH: 122 Obama, 40 Romney PA: 54 Obama, 24 Romney WI: 68 Obama, 24 Romney The only states Romney has more offices than Obama are Utah and Missouri. Nate Silver has it at 98% or higher that those states go to Romney, so it seems a bit WTF? to have invested that much in offices there. Although, Obama has multiple offices in California, Oregon, New York, South Carolina, Washington, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maine, Montana, Arizona and Texas, so I have a similar WTF? reaction to that. Also with Silver, in his top five tipping-point states (the states most likely to provide the decisive electoral votes-- OH, WI, VA, NV, IA), Obama has 329 offices to Romney’s 118-- that’s almost three times as many GOTV centers for Obama. As much as the Romney people are banking on the air war to score an ultimate victory, the Obama camp is counting on their boots on the ground to win it. And, for my money, that’s the only thing that matters. Opinion polls mean far less than actual pull-the-lever GOTV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-early-to-say-romney-has-lost/635066.md?page=45)