# Is it too soon to miss George W. Bush? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282 "2017-06-18T13:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/61 "2017-06-19T14:52:08Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Bush was pretty terrible. While historians have mildened somewhat ([now he’s no longer in the bottom 10](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/all-time-best-president-united-states-rankings-235149)), that’s still pretty bad. The only way any historian will talk about him favorably is in comparison to Trump. By comparison, Obama is just shy of the top 10; make of that what you will. And those rankings left me scratching my head, at both ends. But particularly at the bottom. Here are the 10 Preznits that GWB is supposedly better than: > [@](#): > > 1. Martin Van Buren > 2. Chester Arthur > 3. Herbert Hoover > 4. Millard Fillmore > 5. William Harrison > 6. John Tyler > 7. Warren Harding > 8. Franklin Pierce > 9. Andrew Johnson > 10. James Buchanan Most of these guys were merely undistinguished, and William Henry Harrison was President too briefly to be bad at it. Seriously, did Chester Arthur, Martin Van Buren, Millard Fillmore, or John Tyler leave the Republic in noticeably worse shape than when they became President? And Warren Harding? Pfft. I’ll see your Teapot Dome, and raise you 9/11, Iraq, and Katrina. There are good arguments that Hoover, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and maybe Pierce were worse than Dubya. He’s still in the bottom 5, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/62 "2017-06-19T15:07:20Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … > There are good arguments that Hoover, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and maybe Pierce were worse than Dubya. He’s still in the bottom 5, at best. Here’s the thing. Even the bad presidents weren’t utter disasters to life on our dear Earth. That’s where the yam excels. Screwing up EVERYTHING he touches. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/63 "2017-06-19T15:21:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here’s the thing. Even the bad presidents weren’t utter disasters to life on our dear Earth. That’s where the yam excels. Screwing up EVERYTHING he touches. Yeppers. You’d have thought it would be impossible for a President to be THIS bad. It’s amazing, really, in a perverse way. Compare this with where we were, five months into Dubya’s Presidency. He’d passed his big tax cut for the rich, and he’d appointed a few stinkers to the Cabinet but mostly run-of-the-mill types. But mostly, you didn’t have to _think_ all the time about what sort of fresh hell he was bringing. You could think about politics for awhile, then think about other stuff. Or vice versa. That’s generally how it works, no matter who is President. We’ve found the exception to that rule. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/64 "2017-06-19T15:28:08Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That spot will forever be held by Barack Obama. Don’t kid yourself. You know, yesterday I typed up a post that was something to the effect of “\*\*Clothahump’s \*\*busy but he asked me to pass along a message: ‘hurrrh durrrh Obama worst president duhhhh derp!’” but I deleted it, thinking it was poor form to call you out in a thread you weren’t even participating in, and attribute something brainless to you that you might not actually say. That’s how predictable you are. And thank you for setting me straight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/65 "2017-06-19T15:46:46Z")
> [@mack](#): > > Heaven help us if the next guy makes Trump look good. That would be Pence. And he very well might. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/66 "2017-06-19T16:00:01Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > What are your thoughts on all the left-wing hosannas that we have been seeing for Dubya recently? Honestly, I think you’re really badly missing the point. I have NEVER heard or read a liberal say “You know, I was wrong about George W. Bush. He was a terrific President.” What they’re saying is “Donald Trump is such a nightmare I’d rather have George W. Bush. He was bad, but not nearly this awful.” It is interesting, though, that W is rightly vilified for the pointless and costly Iraq War, and yet the same people who vilify him will often rank LBJ high, despite him being the man who really got the United States into the even more costly, awful Vietnam War. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/67 "2017-06-19T16:07:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That would be Pence. And he very well might. Not sure Pence would be worse than the National Vegetable. I’m willing to chance that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/68 "2017-06-19T16:10:41Z")
The guy’s in favor of electrocuting gays to turn them straight, for one example. For another, he does have connections and experience and determination. Incompetent evil is better than the competent kind, wouldn’tcha say? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/69 "2017-06-19T16:12:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is interesting, though, that W is rightly vilified for the pointless and costly Iraq War, and yet the same people who vilify him will often rank LBJ high, despite him being the man who really got the United States into the even more costly, awful Vietnam War. LBJ’s domestic policies, especially in civil rights, make up for a lot of things, including foreign policy that most of the country supported for a long time. He was … complicated. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/70 "2017-06-19T16:13:22Z")
Mike Pence is quite unlikely to electrocute gay people as President. Perhaps more importantly, he is also much more unlikely than Donald Trump to incinerate all gay people, as well as everyone else, in a nuclear war. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/71 "2017-06-19T16:13:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I still struggle to figure out why this person is allowed to keep posting here. Clothahump is a diversity hire. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/72 "2017-06-19T16:17:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Mike Pence is quite unlikely to electrocute gay people as President. Perhaps more importantly, he is also much more unlikely than Donald Trump to incinerate all gay people, as well as everyone else, in a nuclear war. Those were simply to illustrate the overall bent a Pence Administration would have. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/73 "2017-06-19T16:37:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > LBJ’s domestic policies, especially in civil rights, make up for a lot of things, including foreign policy that most of the country supported for a long time. He was … complicated. Don’t forget the [war on poverty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty). LBJ has some strong points in the plus column, far more than W, though definitely a big thumbs-down for Vietnam :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/74 "2017-06-19T16:42:26Z")
Oh sure. And Nixon accomplished a lot of good things too, including opening up China and starting the EPA. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t also a paranoid anti-Semitic crook. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/75 "2017-06-19T16:43:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is interesting, though, that W is rightly vilified for the pointless and costly Iraq War, and yet the same people who vilify him will often rank LBJ high, despite him being the man who really got the United States into the even more costly, awful Vietnam War. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > LBJ’s domestic policies, especially in civil rights, make up for a lot of things, including foreign policy that most of the country supported for a long time. He was … complicated. This. The Vietnam and Iraq wars were both horrible. The difference being that LBJ had a hefty stack of positive domestic achievements to counterbalance that disaster. Bush had Katrina. ETA: That doesn’t mean I’d rank LBJ high. If we could split him in two, the domestic LBJ would be a top-5 President, after Lincoln, Washington, FDR, and Jefferson, from my POV. And the LBJ who escalated the Vietnam War would be in the bottom 10, IMHO. So overall, I’d probably put him in the top half, but not by much. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/76 "2017-06-19T16:54:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That spot will forever be held by Barack Obama. Don’t kid yourself. but of course it will Among that set of humanity who think, like you do and have whined and cried about being reprimanded for, that the racial and the ethnic and the bigotted slurs like “towel head” and “wet back” are something normal to be used and you are something other than a hateful weak bigot for using them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/77 "2017-06-19T17:05:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh sure. And Nixon accomplished a lot of good things too, including opening up China and starting the EPA. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t also a paranoid anti-Semitic crook. And even aside from Watergate, Nixon sabotaged LBJ’s Vietnam peace talks, and kept the war going for another 4 years. So Nixon’s got all the downside of LBJ, with the additional downside of Watergate, and while Nixon had some good accomplishments, they’re hardly on the scale of LBJ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/78 "2017-06-19T17:22:22Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > Is that really the man we should have elected to be a heartbeat away from being President? Why bother, now that we’ve established that we can cut out the middleman and install such a creature as President without waiting for a failed “heartbeat”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/79 "2017-06-19T17:30:00Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > Is that really the man we should have elected to be a heartbeat away from being President? Instead, we got Cheney, with his power to shoot a man in the face and make \*him \*apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282/80 "2017-06-19T17:33:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This. The Vietnam and Iraq wars were both horrible. The difference being that LBJ had a hefty stack of positive domestic achievements to counterbalance that disaster. Bush had Katrina. > > ETA: That doesn’t mean I’d rank LBJ high. If we could split him in two, the domestic LBJ would be a top-5 President, after **Lincoln, Washington, FDR, and Jefferson** , from my POV. And the LBJ who escalated the Vietnam War would be in the bottom 10, IMHO. So overall, I’d probably put him in the top half, but not by much. Suspended habeas corpus Slave owner Locked up 100,000 innocent Americans Slave owner Oh Americans. Im kidding, I know what you mean. Oh and LBJ was a racist, serial sexual assaulter. Seriously, if i go around pulling out my dick and showing it to everyone I’m gonna get put on a list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-too-soon-to-miss-george-w-bush/789282.md?page=5)