# Is it true that gay bashers are secretly gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578 "2006-03-08T20:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/41 "2006-03-12T16:37:04Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > I know this guy who is the biggest closet case I’ve ever seen. He’s so incredibly gay, and so desperately trying not to be. And he’s also the most viciously obsessive homophobic, racist, sexist motherfucker - pardon, but it requires a strong word to describe the level of his sheer loathesomeness. I know he’s secretly gay. Almost everyone does, probably including him. We also all know that he would literally rather die than ever admit it or face it any way, and as a result, he’s a miserable drunk with few friends left because he spews forth bile so neverendingly. > > That guy is definitely a secretly gay basher of gays. But he’s the only one I’ve ever been sure about. It’s not exactly the kind of thing that wins any points for Team Rainbow, going around accusing homophobes of being homophiles. (Though sometimes I think that might be a better description; that some guys aren’t actually gay, but have a fetish for homosexuality, but repress it with obsessive hatred). It’s just not useful as a rhetorical tactic, in my opinion. Much better to educate straight people that it’s healthy and normal to have some degree of interest in your own gender, and it doesn’t make you not straight. > > I disagree that it a common tactic of gay activists, however, as the OP states. I think some people do it, but it’s not one of the Big Agenda’s Talking Points, for sure. I like this post, it jibes pretty well with my observations. I’ll add that I tend to see two groups of homophobes (although I’m sure you could divide them in many different ways). The first group is made up of those people who when the subject comes up will express homophobic thoughts but otherwise won’t go out of their way to do so. Among the second group homophobic remarks are a key part of the conversation. You can hardly go 10 minutes without the subject of gay people (and probably gay sex) comes up. I’m reasonably certain that some of both groups of homophobes are in their heart of hearts gay, but I think that many more of them are straight people fetishizing gayness. When people from the second group talk it seems like they are way more obsessed with gay people than is really merited. In many cases the conversation focuses on or alludes to gay sex. I’ve seen enough people like this (though not all _that_ many) to get the feeling that they are unhealthily obsessed with gay sex. I think most _gay_ people think about gay sex less than many of these people do. And when gay people think about it I believe they generally are thinking “Hmmm, I’d like to get me some of that…” rather than “Eww, yuck, that’s nasty and unatural”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/42 "2006-03-12T18:29:44Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > At some point, you should probably learn what ad hominem means and how it’s used. Well, perhaps one of us should. > [@](#): > > [Ad hominem](Ad hominem as logical fallacy) as logical fallacy > A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form: > > A makes claim B; > there is something objectionable about A, > therefore claim B is false. IOW, A claims that homosexual behavior is wrong; A is secretly gay. Therefore there is nothing wrong about homosexual behavior. Rather similar, as I mentioned, to A claims that homosexual behavior is morally acceptable A wants to have sex with pubescent boys Therefore, there is something wrong with homosexual behavior. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/43 "2006-03-12T19:30:57Z")
I don’t like gays and would not like to be around them, but I have no secret gay tendencies. Women are beautiful and sexy, men are not. Why would men like other men? That’s obviously not how things are biologically (or socially) supposed to work. I think there’s something inherent in a testorone-filled straight male that makes him not like gays. I guess you can become tolerant but in my opinion gays are further screwing up the mom/dad/2.5 kids model of the American family. I’m also sick of the media and Hollywoods fixation on everything gay. I think a majority of people are unhappy and uncomfortable with all the gay stuff (especially people trying to raise families), but don’t say anything because it will make them seem intolerant. Take the Seinfeld phrase “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.” That’s a cover-your-ass saying that I think implies that there IS something wrong with that. All this gay stuff reminds me of a decadent Roman emperor drinking wine and having orgies while the empire crumbles. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/44 "2006-03-12T21:17:27Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I don’t like gays and would not like to be around them, but I have no secret gay tendencies. Women are beautiful and sexy, men are not. Why would men like other men? Why do straight women find men sexy? > [@](#): > > That’s obviously not how things are biologically (or socially) supposed to work. I suppose asking for a cite would be pretty pointless, wouldn’t it? > [@](#): > > I think there’s something inherent in a testorone-filled straight male that makes him not like gays. You’re assuming the social mores of the society you currently live in apply equally to all cultures in all times. This is simply not the case. In quite a few modern nations, acceptance of gays is the norm, not the exception. And in some historical cultures, homosexual acts were expected. > [@](#): > > I guess you can become tolerant but in my opinion gays are further screwing up the mom/dad/2.5 kids model of the American family. And this is a bad thing because? > [@](#): > > I’m also sick of the media and Hollywoods fixation on everything gay. I think a majority of people are unhappy and uncomfortable with all the gay stuff (especially people trying to raise families), but don’t say anything because it will make them seem intolerant. This doesn’t make any logical sense. For social pressure to be a factor in suppressing a viewpoint, that viewpoint needs to be a minority opinion. If the majority of people secretly hate gays, what’s stopping them from saying so? Of course, the answer is: Nothing. Anti-gay bigotry is not only not verboten, but it’s frequently a fast pass to political success. If the president of the United States can use the threat of a constitutional ammendment that discriminates against gays as a plank in his re-election campaign, and win, obviously there’s very little social pressure against being openly homophobic. > [@](#): > > All this gay stuff reminds me of a decadent Roman emperor drinking wine and having orgies while the empire crumbles. I’d be rather surprised if you could even name a Roman emperor. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/45 "2006-03-12T23:38:02Z")
**TWEEEEEEEET!** This thread was going along pretty well discussing the actual topic of the OP until folks started getting personal–which followed several posters making dumb remarks unrelated to the actual topic. The topic is “Is it true that gay bashers are secretly gay?” and if you want to post on another topic or slam other posters, start a different thread, (probably in the [Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=5)). [/Moderating] You’ll get yours, **samclem**. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/46 "2006-03-13T05:20:22Z")
It does give on pause for thought. There’s this [del]asshat[/del] guy that frequents the same pub I go to. He’s your typical gay-basher. Never has anything polite to say about ANY group outside his own. A few weeks ago my officious friend was telling me about how one day, when he was in Highschool; him and some of his buddies took this kid in the gym looker room. They forced his gym clothes off and then proceeded to “escort” him to the showers. _caveat: This all started because the poor kid was too modest or too shy to disrobe in front of his other classmates._ Once they got him to the showers, they started spining him in circles. It was at this point, the gay bashing guy took a bar of soap and stuck it in the butt crack of the poor victim. Now, obviously, these acts are deplorable; even for HS students. Still, at the same time, I couldn’t help thinking to myself: “Um, sticking it in the dudes buttcrack. :dubious: Sounds kind of gay.” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/47 "2006-03-13T05:27:05Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > All this gay stuff reminds me of a decadent Roman emperor drinking wine and having orgies while the empire crumbles. They drank wine and had orgies while they were creating the empire, too. In fact, the empire didn’t crumble until the emperors had converted to Christianity. So maybe it’s Christianity that causes empires to crumble? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/48 "2006-03-13T14:35:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > They drank wine and had orgies while they were creating the empire, too. > > In fact, the empire didn’t crumble until the emperors had converted to Christianity. So maybe it’s Christianity that causes empires to crumble? That’s my history professor’s thesis: that because the values of Christianity were so different from those that had defined the Roman Empire as it grew, the new faith undermined its foundation. Of course, a centuries-long process can’t be attributed to a single cause, but it’s food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578/49 "2006-03-13T21:10:48Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > That’s my history professor’s thesis: that because the values of Christianity were so different from those that had defined the Roman Empire as it grew, the new faith undermined its foundation. Of course, a centuries-long process can’t be attributed to a single cause, but it’s food for thought. That was Gibbon’s thesis and it’s perfectly silly, of course. Christianity had as much to do with running ther Empire after Constantine as it did before. The legionnaires just had different emblems on their shields when they decimated villages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-gay-bashers-are-secretly-gay/347578.md?page=2)