# Is it true that when you call an ambulance for someone, you have to pay for it? (need answer fast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621 "2016-09-23T04:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/121 "2016-09-29T11:20:50Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Universal healthcare like in the UK, Canada and Australia has it’s good and bad. You don’t hear stories in Canada and Australia of people have to sale their home or car to pay for cancer treatment or other treatment. > > You don’t hear stories of CT scan bill costing $10,000 some even $15,000 and you don’t hear stories of surgeries costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars. > > You don’t hear stories of homeless people and poor people being kicked out onto the street because they could not pay. > > **The bad side is really long ER wait times and long wait to see specialist and long wait for tests to be done.** > > **And really bad stories of 6 month waiting list for knee or hip surgery is unheard of in the US.** Really? No wait times in ER in the US? You walk in and see a doctor right away, no waiting? And there’s no wait time to see a specialist, get tests done, or have a hip replaced, _even if you’re one of the 11% without insurance, cited earlier?_ Because if people without insurance don’t get follow-up care once they’re discharged from the ER, their wait time is infinite. How do you include the value of “infinite” in your calculation of average wait time in the US? Or, do you just drop those 11% out from the calculation of US wait times? If the 11% are not included in the calculation of wait times in the US, then it’s not appropriate to compare that calculation of wait times to the wait times for patients in a country with UHC, because the whole point of UHC is that 100% are covered. In UHC countries, you don’t need to drop 11% of the population from the calculation to improve your wait time, nor try to factor in a value of infinite for 11% of your population. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/122 "2016-09-29T11:27:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Ambulance services are normally an ancillary service provided by the health system, but at a cost to the user. For instance, I just checked the web-page for my local health authority, and the cost for an ambulance within the city is C$325. Outside the city, there’s an additional mileage charge of C$2.30 per kilometer. As I mentioned in #99, the cost for an ambulance is a flat fee of $45 in Ontario since it’s mostly covered by the provincial health insurance plan ([details here](http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/amb.aspx)) but it varies by province. It appears to be the highest in the prairie provinces where you are, and Alberta – I wasn’t aware that Ontario actually has the lowest ambulance charge in Canada. Rates for all provinces [here](http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/blog/map-ambulance-fees). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/123 "2016-09-29T11:32:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Really? No wait times in ER in the US? You walk in and see a doctor right away, no waiting? > > And there’s no wait time to see a specialist, get tests done, or have a hip replaced, _even if you’re one of the 11% without insurance, cited earlier?_ When my primary care provider referred me to a dermatologist, the next available appointment was six months away. After the six month wait, and several hours in the waiting room, my vitiligo was further along and her diagnosis was obvious. She said, “vitiligo” and her assistant got me a handout. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/124 "2016-09-29T12:13:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I have to emphatically disagree. This is why generalized health care debates are becoming so frustrating that I’m inclined to stay out of them. . It does get frustrating doesn’t it? and thanks **Wolfpup** , I was going to pen a response to **DrDeth** (how apt) but rather lost the will to live (again…how apt). You said all I wanted to say so you’ve saved me time and effort there. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/125 "2016-09-29T12:37:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Really? No wait times in ER in the US? You walk in and see a doctor right away, no waiting? > > And there’s no wait time to see a specialist, get tests done, or have a hip replaced, _even if you’re one of the 11% without insurance, cited earlier?_ > > Because if people without insurance don’t get follow-up care once they’re discharged from the ER, their wait time is infinite. How do you include the value of “infinite” in your calculation of average wait time in the US? > > Or, do you just drop those 11% out from the calculation of US wait times? > > If the 11% are not included in the calculation of wait times in the US, then it’s not appropriate to compare that calculation of wait times to the wait times for patients in a country with UHC, because the whole point of UHC is that 100% are covered. > > In UHC countries, you don’t need to drop 11% of the population from the calculation to improve your wait time, nor try to factor in a value of infinite for 11% of your population. That is not wait times that bureaucracy of who is going cover the cost of treatment or cover the test being done.You may have to wait for them to work out the bureaucracy. But for most part in the US if you in big city it not like doctors, surgeons and specialists have so many cases that the they are not available and you have to wait month or two months to see them. It not like there is a shortage of doctors, surgeons and specialists. Well yes if you live in town, country or small city you may have to drive to bigger city to see surgeon or specialist. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/126 "2016-09-29T12:40:29Z")
In other words “there are no waiting times except there are and by the way I have no idea what is it I’m talking about”. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/127 "2016-09-29T12:42:25Z")
Here are the ER wait times in Florida most of them all under 30 minutes some even 15 minutes. [https://www.floridahospital.com/locations/er-wait-times](https://www.floridahospital.com/locations/er-wait-times) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/128 "2016-09-29T12:42:31Z")
Better than Google Translate. (Nava) ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/129 "2016-09-29T12:47:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In other words “there are no waiting times except there are and by the way I have no idea what is it I’m talking about”. Any time I had CT scan or x-ray done it was same day my family doctor order it. I known people who needed knee injury after playing basketball it was done in weak!!!:eek::eek: ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/130 "2016-09-29T12:52:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Better than Google Translate. > > (Nava) Time for the English teachers and ESL teachers to come into this thread and fix all the grammar and writing. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/131 "2016-09-29T12:53:04Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > There is no wait time in US to see specialist **unless you are in town or in the country** \*\* or some small city\*\*. You can see specialist in two to three days a weak at the most. > > It is unheard of waiting a month or two month to see a specialist. > > Same thing for surgeries booked in the US by the doctor in two to three days a weak at the most. > > Waiting a month or two month for surgeries is unheard. I had to have a stent put in my kidney last year. Took me three weeks to get the initial consultation appointment, and then he scheduled the appointment nearly two months out. Then, a few days before the surgery, they had to reschedule the surgery…for another month later. The surgery was in Philadelphia. I called some other specialists covered by my insurance to see if I could get an earlier appointment, but they all wanted to essentially start the whole process over again, and said they couldn’t guarantee me I’d get the surgery any earlier than it was scheduled for. My son also had a kidney stone, and his lithotripsy was scheduled for a little over a month later. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/132 "2016-09-29T12:59:43Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > The bad side is really long ER wait times and long wait to see specialist and long wait for tests to be done. > > And really bad stories of 6 month waiting list for knee or hip surgery is unheard of in the US. Actually, waiting times in ER rooms in the US does not compare well to other nations. That is not unexpected since the US has a large fraction of its population with the ER as their only source of healthcare. I believe Canada is the most challenged in this area, and sitting next to the kid who is struggling the hardest in this subject may have given the US an inflated sense of adequacy. Waiting times in general are quite complicated. The US does well in access to specialists, but poorly in access to GPs. For the same reason, being a specialist is far more lucrative than being a GP. Hip replacements wear out a very predictable rate, when you know the age and activity of the patient. They can be scheduled many years in advance by a smooth system. In contrast, a chaotic one will wait until the replacement gives out and then try to schedule an emergency replacement at short notice. I don’t know about knee surgeries, but I expect they are non-deteriorating conditions where the patients retain a lot of functionality while waiting, so they may be pushed down the list by emergencies. > [@DrDeth](#): > > OK, I just checked a “take home calculator”. In the UK, my _net_ pay would be about 7000 UK pounds or $9100\* less \*than in the USA. My Health insurance cost for me and my spouse is $120/month after employer contributions. My Co-pay is $15 per visit for most things. > > This seems to leave me $7000 a year ahead. I see Wolfpup have pointed out how much of a non sequitur this is. > [@sweat209](#): > > Yet other countries in world don’t spend any where close to US on health care yet they have universal healthcare even if it is not any where close to US quality healthcare. Actually, US healthcare generally compares poorly to other developed countries, on most measures landing in the mid-30s out of ~42 developed countries. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/133 "2016-09-29T13:01:05Z")
> [@batsto](#): > > I had to have a stent put in my kidney last year. Took me three weeks to get the initial consultation appointment, and then he scheduled the appointment nearly two months out. > Then, a few days before the surgery, they had to reschedule the surgery…for another month later. The surgery was in Philadelphia. I called some other specialists covered by my insurance to see if I could get an earlier appointment, but they all wanted to essentially start the whole process over again, and said they couldn’t guarantee me I’d get the surgery any earlier than it was scheduled for. > > My son also had a kidney stone, and his lithotripsy was scheduled for a little over a month later. I heard of some horror stories of some insurance companies not wanting to do surgery, long waits, cover only part of the cost or fighting with doctor on what they thing they know best. A doctor orders a MRI and the insurance companies is like nope you not sick enough or don’t fit this case for MRI so on. I thought Obama was to do some thing about these insurance companies? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/134 "2016-09-29T13:08:20Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Actually, waiting times in ER rooms in the US does not compare well to other nations. That is not unexpected since the US has a large fraction of its population with the ER as their only source of healthcare. > > I believe Canada is the most challenged in this area, and sitting next to the kid who is struggling the hardest in this subject may have given the US an inflated sense of adequacy. > > Waiting times in general are quite complicated. The US does well in access to specialists, but poorly in access to GPs. For the same reason, being a specialist is far more lucrative than being a GP. > > Hip replacements wear out a very predictable rate, when you know the age and activity of the patient. They can be scheduled many years in advance by a smooth system. In contrast, a chaotic one will wait until the replacement gives out and then try to schedule an emergency replacement at short notice. > > I don’t know about knee surgeries, but I expect they are non-deteriorating conditions where the patients retain a lot of functionality while waiting, so they may be pushed down the list by emergencies. > > I see Wolfpup have pointed out how much of a non sequitur this is. > > Actually, US healthcare generally compares poorly to other developed countries, on most measures landing in the mid-30s out of ~42 developed countries. Yes if you are lower income, poor or homeless you better healthcare in a developed countries than the US. Again US healthcare is privilege not a right. So many lower income, poor or homeless do not have money for treatment or have sale house or car to pay for treatment. Many poor or homeless do not even get treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/135 "2016-09-29T13:28:58Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Here are the ER wait times in Florida most of them all under 30 minutes some even 15 minutes. > > [https://www.floridahospital.com/locations/er-wait-times](https://www.floridahospital.com/locations/er-wait-times) As a regular Florida Hospital patient, I can assure you that the advertised wait times are pretty much just made up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/136 "2016-09-29T14:17:07Z")
In the U.S., getting in to see a doctor, specialist, hospital, or having a procedure done all vary by insurance, providers, hospitals, and I’m sure location. When I needed to see a dermatologist, I didn’t need a referral from my PCP, I just chose one in my insurance company’s network. Saw the dermatologist a week or two later, at my convenience. Not six month later. Very recently, my gastroenterologist ordered an endoscopy for me on an outpatient basis, but performed at the hospital due to anesthesia and other considerations. The scheduler offered me an appointment for later that same week, but I scheduled for two weeks out. Again, not six months later. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/137 "2016-09-29T14:26:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In the U.S., getting in to see a doctor, specialist, hospital, or having a procedure done all vary by insurance, providers, hospitals, and I’m sure location. > > When I needed to see a dermatologist, I didn’t need a referral from my PCP, I just chose one in my insurance company’s network. Saw the dermatologist a week or two later, at my convenience. Not six month later. > > Very recently, my gastroenterologist ordered an endoscopy for me on an outpatient basis, but performed at the hospital due to anesthesia and other considerations. The scheduler offered me an appointment for later that same week, but I scheduled for two weeks out. Again, not six months later. Well if this is representative, I must revise my statement that the US does well on specialist access. This compares quite poorly to my own experiences. When I needed a dermatologist, I called my doctor, and got called back by a dermatologist who set me up with an appointment 80 minutes later. When my sister was diagnosed with cancer, she was on the operating table three days later. Which may seem shockingly long, but apparently you need to fast for three days before they do this operation on your stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/138 "2016-09-29T14:31:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Rates for all provinces [here](http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/blog/map-ambulance-fees). Just a note that those rates are for provincial residents. Non-residents are charged at a higher rate. For example, New Brunswick is listed as $130 but a friend from Nova Scotia just recently had to make use of an ambulance during her visit and was charged $650. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/139 "2016-09-29T14:43:09Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Well if this is representative, I must revise my statement that the US does well on specialist access. This compares quite poorly to my own experiences. When I needed a dermatologist, I called my doctor, and got called back by a dermatologist who set me up with an appointment 80 minutes later. > > When my sister was diagnosed with cancer, she was on the operating table three days later. Which may seem shockingly long, but apparently you need to fast for three days before they do this operation on your stomach. I don’t consider my experience with access to specialists to be poor, at all. For the dermatologist, I scheduled the appointment when I did largely for my own convenience, due to work schedules and the like. And the hospital procedure could have been done within a few days, but due to the anesthesia, I had to arrange for a family member to drive me home after the procedure, so I scheduled it for about 10 days out, again, by my choice. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621/140 "2016-09-29T14:49:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In the U.S., getting in to see a doctor, specialist, hospital, or having a procedure done all vary by insurance, providers, hospitals, and I’m sure location. Absolutely. I am in a major urban center and I am in the middle of a five-month wait to see an ophthalmic surgeon. It wasn’t the earliest available appointment with any doctor in that specialty - I am an established patient - but the best I was offered was three months out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-that-when-you-call-an-ambulance-for-someone-you-have-to-pay-for-it-need-answer-fast/766621.md?page=8)