Did you factor the numbers of Americans who don’t get the Treatment they Need because they can’t afford it into your “shorter waittimes” calculation? Because if not, you’re comparing apples to oranges: everybody who Needs getting surgery, but non-urgent have to wait vs. only those who have the right insurance getting surgery, but very fast.
I also wouldn’t want the hassle of dealing with bills - getting them from the doctor, Hospital, dozens of different sub-Groups like radiologist, lab, pharmacy -; filling out the insurance forms; copying everything (in case files are “lost”); sending them to insurance, where maybe the Person assigned to my case lets them wait for a month; getting angry phone calls by hospitals etc because the bill isn’t paid yet; spending time on the phone with the insurance Company about when will they pay the bill; arguing with the insurance Company about why the refuse to pay for a Treatment; …
Such a waste of time and energy when the health issue itself eats up enough time and emotional energy on its own.
Here, we just Show our health insurance Card and deal with getting healthy.
This maybe a Problem for Canada (and Australia) because of geographic Isolation (relative) and low Population numbers.
In the European countries, there are Centers for specialisation, too - where the US has the Mayo clinic and similar that are leading in certain fields, Berlin has the Charite, and France has one or two Special clinics, so People from one Country with a rare disease go to the Center for that one, even if they have to cross a border.
In the EU countries, all EU citizens have now one health insurance Card, so a German being treated in France doesn’t pay extra.
Furthermore, the EU has for some time now paid for a Project called “Orphaned diseases” where diseases that are rare but serious, not worth the private Research that common diseases get, are specially funded so they, too, can be researched.
Well, some People - like apparently Dr. Deth - follow the rule of “If it works for me personally, the System is good (screw the rest, I don’t care)”
Under that rule, he is right, the US System is better for him than the UK one.
Most People with a smidgen of either empathy with fellow humans; enough recognition to realize it’s luck and not being a good Person that determines your health; or just cool-headed enough to look at the national numbers of cost, lives ruined, debts accumulated that could all be spent on more productive things, take the rule that “the System that benefits the most People with least cost is good”.
Under that rule, all health care System in modern industrialized nations except the US is better than the US.
Except that you haven’t given proof that These wait times are a) true - we’ve had anecdotes about wait times all over the range, and non-right-wing-scaremongers articles repeatedly state that the Long wait times in non-US countries are myths, not real, or for medical reasons (somebody who Needs an elective surgery like breast will get pushed back before urgent surgeries)
The usual comparision are average wait times, as compiled by the hospitals/ doctors or health insurers (though Nava pointed out the Problem in the Details of how it’s counted)
b) a fact of the System itself, and not a fact of Distribution - both in US and Canada/ Europe, rural regions struggle to get enough doctors, so longer wait times or Long driving times, but big cities are usually well supplied with doctors, which means shorter wait times; and super specialists who get cases from all over the Country may have month-long wait times but are worth it because they are the best of the best (from doing a Special procedure twice a day instead of five times a year, so People prefer to wait).
c) again, what good is a low wait time for the doctor if your insurance Needs 5 weeks to approve the procedure? Or if the pool of approved doctors is so small you have to drive 5 hours to get one? Or if your copay is so high you can’t afford the procedure?
It only makes sense to say “I can’t accept longer wait times, so therefore I reject the whole System, even if everything else is better” if you belong to the “Works for me, screw everybody else” set (and ignore the damage done to the economy and the Country itself by letting People go untreated for circumstances beyond their control).
Remember that famous US newspaper with its article during the Obamacare debate about “death Panels” in the UK, and how if Stephen Hawking had been Born in the UK, the state would never have approved paying that much?
Hawking wrote a nice letter saying basically “Hey Folks, I was Born in the UK, and got Treatment all my life through NHS, and am thankful and grateful for the good Quality. True, with my additional income from my books I can afford additional Services (extra nurses etc.) but I’m thankful I never had to deal with sth. like the US System. (And no death Panels)”
Look at some Facts instead of bullshit lies from fear-mongers.
Don’t Forget the other “All foreigners come to the US for medical Treatment, so we are the best!” myth that’s trotted out often in These discussions.
Well, no. You simply don’t see the many Arabs coming to UK and Europe for our specialists. You don’t see Americans going across the border to Mexico when they can’t afford US Treatment.
That was rather my point, at least as far as I can remember it. Working people in the US pay more taxes towards government healthcare than workers in the average Western nation, but do not receive healthcare for their money.
In the rest of the developed world most pay less money and all get something back.
Slowly getting better; still in a cast but paracetamol keeps the pain away. But I appreciate not having to deal with bills for care. A 3 hour surgery would cost a lot out of pocket. :eek:
Because of this problem, Vic.Aus legisltated a 100 years ago( ???) that all home insurance campanies would pay a fire deptment levy. So everybody got fire service.
Fire brigades were still semi-volunteer, organised on the same lines as football clubs (you did try-outs, and got match payments, and the brigade had an area and was affiliated with the organising group), until the 1950’s.
About 10 (???) years ago they finally got rid of the link between insurance and fire brigades, and we have fully socialised fire deparements in the metropolitan area now.
Rural fire departments are still partly community supported, but they aren’t such bastards that they’d stand and watch a neighbours house burn just because they didn’t like him.
The Ontario $45 copay is intended to reduce the type of abuse of the system noted above. There is no charge for inter-hospital transfers, for residents of nursing homes or other care facilities, or for anyone on social assistance.
Note that if you are a tourist or visitor not covered by Ontario or other provincial healthcare, you will be charged the FULL ambulance fee of $240. :eek: I cannot see how the US ambulances can justifiably charge such humongous fees (even if they include subsidizing everyone who cannot or does not pay plus all the administrative crap plus profits on top of everything).