# Is it true what people say? That The Wire is the greatest TV show of all time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 22, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299 "2012-01-22T12:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/41 "2012-01-22T19:17:09Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > I don’t think Omar is in particular a bad guy, I was saying I don’t think he is a protagonist: > > A protagonist (from the Greek πρωταγωνιστής protagonistes, “one who plays the first part, chief actor”[1]) is the main character (the central or primary personal figure) of a literary, theatrical, cinematic, or musical narrative, around whom the events of the narrative’s plot revolve and with whom the audience is intended to most identify. Interesting question as to who the audience is supposed to most identify with. I agree that Omar wasn’t THE protagonist for the entire series, but he was for quite a number of episodes. Stringer was too, even though he was a drug lord he was trying to find ways to de-escalate the violence and rationalize the system. And McNulty wasn’t the protagonist for a lot of the series, though he certainly was at the beginning and the end. I can’t recall who was the police commander who set up the free trade zones for dealers. I think he had an odd nickname of Bunny. [Unbelievably, he’s not even listed among the principal characters on the HBO site,](http://www.hbo.com/#/the-wire/cast-and-crew.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oUc-PSYEJBSSmp-ol5qYy5zMXsjGyMXIyMrJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAXbkXOA==) and a whole lot of the series revolved around him. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/42 "2012-01-22T19:22:48Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The Wire is one of several highly-regarded TV shows (others of which have also been mentioned in this thread) that I have been hesitant to get into because I’ve been afraid they’d be too dark and depressing, too obsessed with crime and violence. What I love about The West Wing, aside from the fact that it’s intelligently and entertainingly written and acted, is that it’s a show about fundamentally good, admirable, likable people who are trying to do fundamentally good, admirable, worthwhile things, and I often feel like a better person for having watched it. I don’t get the impression, from what I hear about those other critics’ darlings, that I would have that same response to them—in fact, they seem to be praised precisely for focusing on the dark side of life. I think even a lot of the bad guys in _The Wire_ are fundamentally good people, who have very few choices or opportunities to do something else. And that’s something you see very rarely. But I’d have to say that if you want an uplifting show that holds out the promise of a better tomorrow, _The Wire_ ain’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/43 "2012-01-22T19:32:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can’t recall who was the police commander who set up the free trade zones for dealers. I think he had an odd nickname of Bunny. [Unbelievably, he’s not even listed among the principal characters on the HBO site,](http://www.hbo.com/#/the-wire/cast-and-crew.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oUc-PSYEJBSSmp-ol5qYy5zMXsjGyMXIyMrJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAXbkXOA==) and a whole lot of the series revolved around him. Bunny Colvin is listed on your link under “The School.” ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/44 "2012-01-22T19:39:55Z")
For what it’s worth **Thudlow Boink** , I’d say - it’s a show about fundamentally **flawed** , admirable, likable people who are trying to do fundamentally good, admirable, worthwhile things **as best they can** … but also about people doing selfish and cruel things, doing ‘fundamentally’ evil actions because they are relatively good. It doesn’t focus on the dark side so much as try to show all sides of a dark situation. It’s actually when it stays too long on the “good people doing good” as in McNulty early on, or the entire last season that it’s considered weaker. I think the genius of The Wire is primarily that every relevant character is fully realized. All the conflict arises out of the interactions of these people whose motivations you become familiar with. That’s why it’s compared to a novel, and also why watching a few episodes isn’t as revealing as with other shows. It’s also why rewatching is rewarded, because the characters are so consistent that something that was unexplained as the series unfolded still makes sense in light of later knowledge. That this was done as a television production, over years, with all the people required to make that happen, is incredible and why it is the greatest. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/45 "2012-01-22T19:44:36Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Bunny Colvin is listed on your link under “The School.” Thanks, you have spared HBO my outrage! He spent a lot more time in the street in a cop suit than he did in the school, so I never thought to look there. Definitely among my favorite characters. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/46 "2012-01-22T20:07:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But I’d have to say that if you want an uplifting show that holds out the promise of a better tomorrow, _The Wire_ ain’t it. True, but I don’t think it promises a grim future either. All it says is “This is how it really is and why. What do we do about it ?” and offers at least some avenues of inquiry and action. Granted, most of them are of the “that’s rubbish, we need to stop doing that” variety :). ETA: as for who the protagonist of the series is, if any, I’d have to go with Carver. He’s the only one to go through a typical “hero’s journey” and to overcome his crippling flaws. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/47 "2012-01-22T20:13:20Z")
Eh. It was a good show, but The Shield and The Sopranos are both much better dramas, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/48 "2012-01-22T20:24:10Z")
The Wire has long since ended, but the odd thing about this show is that it still feels like I didn’t “watch” a TV show, it felt like I was really there. The show is more of a distant memory of a past life I never actually lived. So yes, I guess I would consider it one of the greatest TV series simply because it has imbedded itself so deeply in my psyche. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/49 "2012-01-22T20:49:50Z")
So how does having a poor season affect your estimation of a show’s overall rating? The first seasons were definitely some of the best television I’ve ever seen, but I thought the final season was pretty dire. I’m not sure it’s all that fair to say “well, ignoring X, it’s the greatest show ever”. ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/50 "2012-01-22T20:57:07Z")
It makes the top 5 in my book! I liked Mad Men better, but it didn’t have the gangsta stuff that the audience can live vicariously through, so it isn’t quite as popular as The Wire. The best part about The Wire is that it showed that most criminals are not psychopaths. There were only two real characters that were portrayed as actual clinical psychopaths, Marlo, and probably the little cat-torturer Kenard. The rest of the bad guys were shown to have a softer side in one way or another(even Chris, that maniac, felt bad for Michael when he realized that his stepfather was sexually abusive). The only character I didn’t like was Stringer. I could tell that he wasn’t African American immediately, and he didn’t feel believable to me, even when he evolved into a gangsta-turned-businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/51 "2012-01-22T21:28:52Z")
I’d say it’s the best TV series I’ve seen. It’s a complex and very comprehensive look at a modern city, which is what draws the comparisons to a novel - and I think that’s a good comparison. It’s very well written, and while it’s probably not to true to say it’s more realistic than other crime or procedural shows, it does feel that way because they avoid a lot of cliches and easy answers, and they give their audience a lot more credit than most TV shows do. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/52 "2012-01-22T23:52:49Z")
Certainly in my personal top five. For some reason my _least_ favorite character was the kid with the hair (blanking on his name) that straightened out and seemed headed out of the hood. Good for him but I kept hoping for a drive by every time he was on screen. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/53 "2012-01-22T23:59:19Z")
Namond Brice. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/54 "2012-01-23T00:10:58Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Regardless of which character **monstro** really meant, a glance at [Who are your FIVE (5) favorite characters from “THE WIRE”?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=576759) should give some idea of how 46 voters felt in September, 2010 – not that they would necessarily vote the same way today. I still can’t believe how little love Slim Charles got in that poll. The man was stand-up. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/55 "2012-01-23T00:23:58Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > What I love about The West Wing, aside from the fact that it’s intelligently and entertainingly written and acted, is that it’s a show about fundamentally good, admirable, likable people who are trying to do fundamentally good, admirable, worthwhile things, and I often feel like a better person for having watched it. I don’t get the impression, from what I hear about those other critics’ darlings, that I would have that same response to them—in fact, they seem to be praised precisely for focusing on the dark side of life. Certainly The Wire is not a show about fundamentally good, admirable, likable people, at least not the way The West Wing is. And it certainly focuses on a dark and depressing place. But I don’t think it falls into one of two possible traps: (1) it doesn’t just take every character who you might think you like and say “ah, but this guy has some FLAWS. Want to see them? No? Well, they are anyhow!”. (Nor, for that matter, does it feel obligated to take every bad guy and give them some heart of gold qualities just because.) (2) It doesn’t show us bad things for bad things’ sake. It’s not somehow the metaphorical equivalent of torture porn, where it just delights in showing us how terrible and hopeless everything is. It shows us a shitty situation, and how various people survive in it, some trying to make it better, some exploiting it, some just trying to survive, etc. It does, it’s worth mentioning, have some moments that are extremely funny, and even some that are extraordinarily uplifting and inspirational… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/56 "2012-01-23T00:30:36Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > For some reason my _least_ favorite character was the kid with the hair (blanking on his name) that straightened out and seemed headed out of the hood. Good for him but I kept hoping for a drive by every time he was on screen. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Namond Brice. Of course, Namond’s story was one of the most uplifting in the series even though he could be pretty obnoxious himself. And his mother was one of the most horrifying characters in the show for me. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/57 "2012-01-23T00:42:00Z")
I was actually quite angry at the writers for letting Namond get the fairy tale ending when Randy didn’t, even though Randy was smarter, wittier, less of a coward and most of all tried _way_ harder to leave the 'hood behind. Then I realized that was sort of the point. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/58 "2012-01-23T00:50:51Z")
Before I knew much about it, I thought _The Wire_ was not my kind of thing. Over the years I have learned a little bit more about it, so now I think I can unequivocally say it’s not my kind of thing. When people list the other shows that it’s similar to, or they also like (perhaps for similar reasons, perhaps not) it’s clear to me my tastes don’t jibe. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/59 "2012-01-23T01:00:25Z")
^ Yep, the last thing you want to do is watch it and make your mind up based on your own experience. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299/60 "2012-01-23T01:17:14Z")
This thread settles it - I’m going to have to watch this series. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-true-what-people-say-that-the-wire-is-the-greatest-tv-show-of-all-time/610299.md?page=4)