# Is it truly impossible to trap mariana in a container with no scents permeating whatsoever **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988 "2011-09-29T05:41:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/61 "2011-10-03T05:45:12Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > I question the metal containers being welded shut tactic. As, welding metal usually gets pretty hot and would catch the substance on fire. Plus, it generates toxic gases which would then be trapped in the container and could infuse with the substance. > > I do think, that you could “solder” the container shut. Like back in the day when they used lead to seal up canned food. That might actually work. Steel or brass containers soldered shut with a lead based solder. > > Or, possibly, you could use a thick plastic container made of acrylic, PTFE, or PFA. Then, seal the container with a lid and use either a glue or even weld it shut (some plastics can be welded). Those three plastics, have very low, gas-permeability. Welding or soldiering seams both have pores that, for the purposes of a dog’s sense of smell, might as well be a mile wide. Plastics with “low” gas permeability likewise might as well be fishing nets. It’s hard to imagine the sensitivity of a dog’s sense of smell when using our own as a point of reference. Being able to smell things in parts per trillion if compared to our vision would be like us being able to see a pebble on the ground 100 miles away on the horizon. And this would be like someone trying to hide a beach ball in a mesh bag 2 feet away. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/62 "2011-10-03T06:34:15Z")
> [@captainj954](#): > > …being primarily a scientific person by nature and a free thinker found this finding to be rather abhorring … ::nitpick:: Abhorrent ::/nitpick:: ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/63 "2011-10-03T11:06:32Z")
Fill canning jars full of material, seal the lids (heh) and boil in a water bath. Wait for it to cool, twist the lids on tighter to keep the seal on, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/64 "2011-10-03T21:18:27Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Perhaps if you buried it in a trench and then covered it with 36,000ft of seawater? LOL! ---
**Author:** ![captainj954](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@captainj954](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainj954)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/65 "2011-10-04T01:34:48Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Welding or soldiering seams both have pores that, for the purposes of a dog’s sense of smell, might as well be a mile wide. Plastics with “low” gas permeability likewise might as well be fishing nets. > > It’s hard to imagine the sensitivity of a dog’s sense of smell when using our own as a point of reference. Being able to smell things in parts per trillion if compared to our vision would be like us being able to see a pebble on the ground 100 miles away on the horizon. And this would be like someone trying to hide a beach ball in a mesh bag 2 feet away. does solid metal no welding have pores??? This is exactly the direction that I was going with this. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/66 "2011-10-04T01:43:21Z")
No one has mentioned duct tape and plastic sheeting yet–hey, if the government recommends it to seal out biological contaminants, it must work, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/67 "2011-10-04T01:53:00Z")
> [@captainj954](#): > > …being primarily a scientific person by nature and a free thinker found this finding to be rather abhorring … > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > ::nitpick:: > Abhorrent > ::/nitpick:: Although abhorring is a proper conjugation of the verb abhor (although ungrammatical here) it sounds like a bad exercise craze… Abgliding Absliding Abtwisting Abhorring ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/68 "2011-10-04T03:13:20Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Although abhorring is a proper conjugation of the verb abhor (although ungrammatical here) it sounds like a bad exercise craze… > > Abgliding > Absliding > Abtwisting > Abhorring The last one is for a special group of women. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/69 "2011-10-04T03:17:08Z")
If a onezie --gotta add the z-- is a one-shooter, by definition it’s not a lid. Joe Friday, call your office. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/70 "2011-10-04T03:21:49Z")
But there is a lid on it. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/71 "2011-10-04T05:04:26Z")
There was one comedian who suggested hiding contraband in a little dog’s bum. That way, the customs officers will think that the sniffer doges are just sniffing the little dog’s bum for the sake of it. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/72 "2011-10-04T09:15:16Z")
If a small amount of chemical can alert the dog by percolating through the wrapping, a small amount of chemical in the hair, clothing and gear of our hero should also alert the dog, even when our hero has no actual chemical stash with him, correct? In other words, do we know the false positive and false negative rates of the dogs? ---
**Author:** ![Consensus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Consensus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consensus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/73 "2011-10-04T10:21:21Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > There was one comedian who suggested hiding contraband in a little dog’s bum. That way, the customs officers will think that the sniffer doges are just sniffing the little dog’s bum for the sake of it. That is very funny but in reality that won’t work. Because the sniffer dog won’t only sniff the bum, it will also perform an action(usually sitting down) indicating that illegal substance was found. As for the issue of transportation, don’t. Just grow it where you blow it. It’s just a simple plant, all you need are the non-smelling and very tiny seeds. Granted, you only want the female variety and they do also smell when they go in bloom. But you need green fingers if you want the green stuff, and carbon air filters. And if inside is not an option, just plant them outside at a remote area. It’s ok, I’m from the netherlands. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kittimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Kittimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kittimm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/74 "2011-10-04T10:32:43Z")
Should I have to do this ever, while keeping to a sort of house-hold practicality, I would likely vacuum-seal it using a common food sealer in an airtight bag. I would then put this bag inside another bag, filled with water. You would then wash this final bag in a series of solvents to fully clean it, leave it out to dry and etc. It depends what you’re trying to get away with. You could fill the bag with something much more obnoxious than water if you want to mask the smell (and there are many things even a sniffer dog will avoid moving toward). However… if police found you with a bag full of butanal, they may not be best pleased. Meanwhile, gas permeability. True, most plastics will allow some material through - probably enough to get caught. The water will slow this drastically. But if you camp out in the airport for a few years (resisting the urge to dip into your own stash) then it may come back to haunt you. Using a metallised nylon for your bags will eliminate this problem and can be bought at hobby stores > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > If a small amount of chemical can alert the dog by percolating through the wrapping, a small amount of chemical in the hair, clothing and gear of our hero should also alert the dog, even when our hero has no actual chemical stash with him, correct? > > In other words, do we know the false positive and false negative rates of the dogs? This invites the more devious plan of carrying a spray bottle with some dilute , ground canabis (or the vice of your choice) and spraying it on as many people as you can while walking around. The majority of the smell may/may not be coming from you directly, but I doubt that would matter if you sprayed people outside of the airport and let them walk in first. Do this for 10/20 mins, then enter. Then you can hide in plain sight. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/75 "2011-10-04T15:18:47Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Obviously, one half of a twoie. > > I haven’t a clue. That would involve biting a capsule in half, which is problematic. A twoie was the word for a tuinol, a very pleasant barbiturate for those who used to enjoy such things. We used to call them “reds.” The drug has been discontinued. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/76 "2011-10-04T17:58:34Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > If a small amount of chemical can alert the dog by percolating through the wrapping, a small amount of chemical in the hair, clothing and gear of our hero should also alert the dog, even when our hero has no actual chemical stash with him, correct? [It’s time for the percolator…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBGPNfJtj_Q) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/77 "2011-10-04T21:28:35Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > [It’s time for the percolator…](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBGPNfJtj_Q) I especially enjoyed the list of search index tabs. Quite creative. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/78 "2011-10-05T01:14:28Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Welding or soldiering seams both have pores that, for the purposes of a dog’s sense of smell, might as well be a mile wide. Plastics with “low” gas permeability likewise might as well be fishing nets. > > It’s hard to imagine the sensitivity of a dog’s sense of smell when using our own as a point of reference. Being able to smell things in parts per trillion if compared to our vision would be like us being able to see a pebble on the ground 100 miles away on the horizon. And this would be like someone trying to hide a beach ball in a mesh bag 2 feet away. Possibly. But, I think we’d need to know the size of whatever molecule that will trigger the dog. But, I chose those three plastics as I know they have no permeability in regards to nitrogen, COH, and NH, based compunds… I’m trying to find the link now but can’t. I must have gotten the exact right search terms that first time around. Any ways, something to think about is the size of our noble gases. If you can store a noble gas such as hydrogen in a container, which is our smallest element, then I doubt that the dog will be able to sniff anything in said container assuming a perfect seal. So, you need to find whatever molecule the dog is triggering on, determine its approximate molecular size, then find a container that can contain whatever gas is smaller. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/79 "2011-10-05T01:52:54Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > Possibly. But, I think we’d need to know the size of whatever molecule that will trigger the dog. But, I chose those three plastics as I know they have no permeability in regards to nitrogen, COH, and NH, based compunds… I’m trying to find the link now but can’t. I must have gotten the exact right search terms that first time around. > > Any ways, something to think about is the size of our noble gases. If you can store a noble gas such as hydrogen in a container, which is our smallest element, then I doubt that the dog will be able to sniff anything in said container assuming a perfect seal. So, you need to find whatever molecule the dog is triggering on, determine its approximate molecular size, then find a container that can contain whatever gas is smaller. > > Right? I think that is all fundamentally correct. And to date, no such material or container has been identified that can serve a practical barrier for hiding marijuana from drug sniffing dogs. The factors involved are the permeability of the material (which involves more than just porosity), time, temperature, and movement. Even the beaker you mention would eventually leak hydrogen with enough time, I think, but it might take many years. In practical terms we can look at the question from another perspective: what do the professional drug smugglers use? In almost all cases it is [paper-wrapping](http://maricopa360.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mpd-pot-bust.jpg) [covered](http://buycigarettes.blog.com/files/2011/08/marijuana-bust.jpg)with a [low-permeability](http://www.drugsno.com/img/marijuanabust.bmp) [plastic wrap](http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2010/02/23/drugs__tx700.jpg?8e0a8887e886a6ff6e13ee030987b3616fc57cd3). Their hope isn’t so much to hide the odor from dogs which is logistically impossible but from people. If there was a practical way to conceal the odor from dogs they would be using it. Maybe we don’t know of it because it is so effective none have ever been caught. For much smaller amounts almost any truly ‘air tight’ container could theoretically work for at least a period of time if completely washed, washed again outside of the area where it was packed, then completely washed again outside of that area, etc. several times over. The more heat, or motion the container was subjected to the faster the odor would permeate. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988/80 "2011-10-05T05:32:56Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I think that is all fundamentally correct. And to date, no such material or container has been identified that can serve a practical barrier for hiding marijuana from drug sniffing dogs. But what you are basically saying here is that the molecule that dogs detect is smaller or more permeable than hydrogen. Unless by "no such material or container has been identified " you mean to say this search hasn’t been very thorough. And I’m not sure I can agree with your quibble earlier about dogs not smelling “through” things. They surely do if the molecule is passing through a container. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-truly-impossible-to-trap-mariana-in-a-container-with-no-scents-permeating-whatsoever/597988.md?page=5)