# Is it unethical to work to promote voter turnout in anoher state?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [July 22, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470 "2019-07-22T19:42:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/21 "2019-07-23T16:45:29Z")
From Letter From A Birmingham Jail:
> [@](#):
>
> I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against “outsiders coming in.” I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South, and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise. So I, along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here. I am here because I have organizational ties here.
>
> But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their “thus saith the Lord” far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco Roman world, so am I compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.
>
> Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial “outside agitator” idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.
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### Author:  [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/22 "2019-07-23T16:48:54Z")
Another Marylander here, and one who has emailed the Democratic Party of York Pa. offering help for the '20 election. Helping out when a ridiculous system works against you is the right thing to do, not the immoral one.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/23 "2019-07-23T16:54:56Z")
> [@MandaJo](#):
>
> From Letter From A Birmingham Jail:
Due respect to Dr. King, but it’s not as if I’m going to Wisconsin to protest or help overcome some vast injustice being perpetrated against Wisconsinites. (Yes, you could argue that the voters whose turnout I’m hoping to encourage are having their right to vote impeded by the GOP policies I’m hoping to thwart, but that’s still a far cry from Jim Crow.) My motives are purely political – I want to enable higher turnout in a state we need to win to defeat Trump.
That said, your point and others’ have helped me get over my reservations. I’m doing this.
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### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/24 "2019-07-23T17:00:05Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Due respect to Dr. King, but it’s not as if I’m going to Wisconsin to protest or help overcome some vast injustice being perpetrated against Wisconsinites. (Yes, you could argue that the voters whose turnout I’m hoping to encourage are having their right to vote impeded by the GOP policies I’m hoping to thwart, but that’s still a far cry from Jim Crow.) My motives are purely political – I want to enable higher turnout in a state we need to win to defeat Trump.
>
> That said, your point and others’ have helped me get over my reservations. I’m doing this.
I think the same argument applies: you want what you think is best for the country, and we are one nation. The notion that Wisconsin’s problems are their own and no business of yours is irrelevant.
Plus, you’ve been invited by some of the locals.
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/25 "2019-07-23T17:02:52Z")
Not only have I campaigned in other states, I’ve volunteered in the UK to stop Brexit.
I would talk to some of the other volunteers to find out if there are any hot button local issues that you might need to be aware of if you’re going door to door. If you’re just staffing a table for voter registration, just learn a few basics about voting in Wisconsin so that you can answer simple questions.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/26 "2019-07-23T17:18:14Z")
> [@MandaJo](#):
>
> Plus, you’ve been invited by some of the locals.
Not yet – I still have to reach out.
> [@dalej42](#):
>
> I would talk to some of the other volunteers to find out if there are any hot button local issues that you might need to be aware of if you’re going door to door. If you’re just staffing a table for voter registration, just learn a few basics about voting in Wisconsin so that you can answer simple questions.
Excellent advice – thanks!
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### Author:  [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/27 "2019-07-23T18:21:46Z")
It’s about as “unethical” as donating money to a political party that might end up spending it in another state.
In fact, it’s quite common for a campaign to get outside support - for example, when a particular incumbent is being targeted for some reason.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/28 "2019-07-24T02:48:08Z")
> [@dalej42](#):
>
> Not only have I campaigned in other states, I’ve volunteered in the UK to stop Brexit.
>
> I would talk to some of the other volunteers to find out if there are any hot button local issues that you might need to be aware of if you’re going door to door. If you’re just staffing a table for voter registration, just learn a few basics about voting in Wisconsin so that you can answer simple questions.
I’m really not trying to hijack the thread. Really I’m not, so I hope everyone can take this for the thought exercise it is.
So, the idea is that someone from IL can go to WI and attempt to influence an election and an American can volunteer to stop Brexit in the UK and that is fine. Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/29 "2019-07-24T03:57:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
Because the Russians are doing so a). from a position of secrecy and using false fronts, b.) using lies and innuendo as core tools( though hardly the only ones ), c.) cynically and generally with malign intent, attempting to sow maximum chaos to strengthen their geopolitical position. It is in effect a subtle bit of cold warfare being waged at a government’s directive. I don’t exactly blame the Russians for it - like espionage in general it is something most major powers have played with to one extent or another. But like espionage in general, it is also something all nations should be seeking to guard against.
I’d think the difference between that and some individual openly campaigning for some cause they honestly believe in would be reasonably clear. Particularly if that cause happens to be a _national_ election.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/30 "2019-07-24T04:19:54Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Because the Russians are doing so a). from a position of secrecy and using false fronts, b.) using lies and innuendo as core tools( though hardly the only ones ), c.) cynically and generally with malign intent, attempting to sow maximum chaos to strengthen their geopolitical position. It is in effect a subtle bit of cold warfare being waged at a government’s directive. I don’t exactly blame the Russians for it - like espionage in general it is something most major powers have played with to one extent or another. But like espionage in general, it is also something all nations should be seeking to guard against.
>
> I’d think the difference between that and some individual openly campaigning for some cause they honestly believe in would be reasonably clear. Particularly if that cause happens to be a _national_ election.
Let’s say that individual’s motives are not pure. As mentioned upthread, say we have legal casino gambling in my state and the neighboring state is having a ballot initiative there to legalize it. I know that my state will lose revenue if the bill passes. I want that state money, and have no problem with casino gambling; I even hit the casinos and have a VIP membership with comps and perks.
Instead of arguing against it for that reason, I go to the other state, pass out leaflets, put up a website which attempts to convince people that casino gambling is evil, will cause gambling addiction and people dropping their rent money at the casino. I also have targeted advertising: I hit the church groups with the argument about how sinful gambling is, the law enforcement community about the increase in crime, and the domestic violence groups and say that men come home after a big loss at the casino and beat their wives.
Is that wrong and/or should it be illegal?
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/31 "2019-07-24T12:51:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> I’m really not trying to hijack the thread. Really I’m not, so I hope everyone can take this for the thought exercise it is.
>
> So, the idea is that someone from IL can go to WI and attempt to influence an election and an American can volunteer to stop Brexit in the UK and that is fine. Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
Someone from IL is living with, and if a voting age citizen responsible for, the same Federal government as is anyone living in WI. So if we’re talking about a Federal level election, and/or about voting registration in general, all such people are all part of the same system and all entitled to try to influence it.
Someone from the USA IMO has no business campaigning about a European election in the UK. US citizens have no business campaigning in an election in Russia and vice versa. And nobody, in any election, even one in their own district, ought to be campaigning by covert means, including pretending to be somebody else altogether and/or fabricating material and/or hacking voting machines or otherwise interfering in the voting process itself.
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Let’s say that individual’s motives are not pure. As mentioned upthread, say we have legal casino gambling in my state and the neighboring state is having a ballot initiative there to legalize it. I know that my state will lose revenue if the bill passes. I want that state money, and have no problem with casino gambling; I even hit the casinos and have a VIP membership with comps and perks.
>
> Instead of arguing against it for that reason, I go to the other state, pass out leaflets, put up a website which attempts to convince people that casino gambling is evil, will cause gambling addiction and people dropping their rent money at the casino. I also have targeted advertising: I hit the church groups with the argument about how sinful gambling is, the law enforcement community about the increase in crime, and the domestic violence groups and say that men come home after a big loss at the casino and beat their wives.
>
> Is that wrong and/or should it be illegal?
I think it’s wrong, though I don’t think it’s practical to make it illegal. It can and depending on what’s being done sometimes is illegal to not disclose direct interest in the home state’s casinos, but determining the motives of somebody whose interest is indirect isn’t within the law’s capabilities.
It’s also a different issue because whether people want to have casinos in x state and not y state is far more a state-by-state issue, even if it has some indirect impact on the other state, than is the overall results of a federal election.
To take that further, I don’t think people should go campaign for local issues unless they live in or have direct interests in the locality; partly because I doubt they’re going to understand the issues properly, partly because they’re not the ones who are going to have to live with the results.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/32 "2019-07-24T13:03:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> So, the idea is that someone from IL can go to WI and attempt to influence an election and an American can volunteer to stop Brexit in the UK and that is fine. Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Because the Russians are doing so a). from a position of secrecy and using false fronts, b.) using lies and innuendo as core tools( though hardly the only ones ), c.) cynically and generally with malign intent, attempting to sow maximum chaos to strengthen their geopolitical position. It is in effect a subtle bit of cold warfare being waged at a government’s directive. I don’t exactly blame the Russians for it - like espionage in general it is something most major powers have played with to one extent or another. But like espionage in general, it is also something all nations should be seeking to guard against.
Plus, at least half the outrage is about Trump’s team meeting with, encouraging and all-but-criminally-colluding with the Russians.
If I were meeting illegally with Wisconsin Democrats to undermine Wisconsin elections with lies and innuendo spread through social media bots, Wisconsinites would be right to be outraged.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/33 "2019-07-24T15:03:55Z")
While I think that Brexit was, is, and will remain a phenomenally stupid idea, I personally would draw a line at personally campaigning against it. That’s an issue that really will have minimal impact on me, and it’s the Brits’ mistake to make.
But the senators, representatives, and president that Wisconsans elect will enact laws and policies that will effect me as well as them, so that absolutely is my business.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/34 "2019-07-25T12:23:32Z")
Question: is there anything preventing the OP from donating money to candidates in Wisconsin? Is that legal in the States, for a citizen of one state to donate to a citizen in another?
If there’s no legal bar to a US citizen donating money to a candidate in another state, what’s the problem with donating time?
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/35 "2019-07-25T13:43:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Question: is there anything preventing the OP from donating money to candidates in Wisconsin? Is that legal in the States, for a citizen of one state to donate to a citizen in another?
>
> If there’s no legal bar to a US citizen donating money to a candidate in another state, what’s the problem with donating time?
US citizens may contribute to a candidate or referendum in another state.
I should clarify that my anti-Brexit campaigning was simply volunteering on an anti-Brexit march.
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### Author:  [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/36 "2019-07-25T18:23:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> So, the idea is that someone from IL can go to WI and attempt to influence an election and an American can volunteer to stop Brexit in the UK and that is fine. Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
We are outraged because the influence doesn’t appear to be from individual Russian citizens who happened to have strong feelings about Trump or Clinton, but from an organized campaign directed from the Kremlin. It is not “Russians” but “the Russian government”; the equivalent would be if the State of Illinois funded and directed a campaign to influence Wisconsin elections, which is not at all what OP is discussing.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/37 "2019-07-25T18:56:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Then why are we outraged if the Russians attempt to influence our election?
I’m not outraged that the Russians attempt to influence our election. Foreign meddling attempts, though illegal, are normal and expected.
I am outraged at US citizens who tolerate and encourage these hostile actions when it benefits their partisan interests. I am especially outraged at a President, and his campaigners, who seem to know Russia is breaking the law on their behalf, but won’t use their powers of office to even denounce lawbreaking that helps their political fortunes.
That’s what the outrage is about; let’s stay clear on that.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unethical-to-work-to-promote-voter-turnout-in-anoher-state/837470/38 "2019-07-25T19:30:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Is that wrong and/or should it be illegal?
Wrong from a point of personal honesty. But we allow people to lie all day about why they support a political position. My God, there would be no politicians or political discussion if there were a way to make people magically be honest about their motivations.
I just can’t get worked up over a Wisconsin/Illinois crossover because:
[ul]
[li]Federal candidates will be on both states’ ballots, thus each state has overlapping interests in who governs them.[/li][li]The geographic proximity alone justifies an interest in a neighboring state. I may or may not want a brothel opening up right over the state line.[/li][li]Wisconsinites and Illinoisians have differing interests, but they are members of the same country. They aren’t geopolitical rivals. Certainly they aren’t trying to steal territory or wipe each other off the map.[/li][/ul]
Frankly, if you feel like US vs. Russia conflicts are no more serious than Wisconsin vs. Illinois, it reveals something disturbing about either your allegiance, motivations, or your understanding of current events.
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