# Is it Unka Sam's fault if you're fat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566 "2003-08-25T18:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/21 "2003-08-27T18:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BwanaBob \* > Why the HELL should I have ever doubted the EPA study on second hand smoke? I know I feel like shit every time I’m in a smoke filled room. It would never occur to me to further investigate the EPA report. > > You are probably a hard-core smoker or one of those fanatics that thinks the government is out to get you and/or control you. Hey, ease up there, **Bob.**** Dogface** is entirely correct that the EPA report on secondhand smoke is bullshit – Penn & Teller even exposed it as such on their Showtime TV program, tracing the same roots. And since the SDMB is about fighting ignorance, we should not be afraid in admitting the report is bogus and should not be believed. You may have a valid reason for disliking the smell or nausa-inducing effects of secondhand smoke, but that’s a separate and unrelated issue from the report’s gonzo science. And I certainly don’t see anything where **Dogface** was saying it’s now socially acceptable to smoke where people may be disturbed by it, so your attack on him seems to be pure pettiness. (And I’m not a “hard-core smoker”, nor “one of those fanatics that thinks the government is out to get you,” so the argument won’t work with me, either) ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/22 "2003-08-27T19:39:09Z")
rjung- Reread DogFace’s post to me - that I must be some ignorant cultist if I buy into the EPA report. He came down on me pretty hard, as if this report being false were common knowledge. I’m pretty up on current affairs and that one slipped by me. So sue me. His claim that I am incapable of determing the difference between science and junk science came across as the words of a sanctimonious old fool. Judging by some of his other posts he’s probably all three. I replied in kind. I see no need to take the high road. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/23 "2003-08-27T20:46:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BwanaBob \* > \*\*Why the HELL should I have ever doubted the EPA study on second hand smoke? I know I feel like shit every time I’m in a smoke filled room. It would never occur to me to further investigate the EPA report. Idunno, because you’re not a credulous fool who buys every piece of propaganda the government shoves in our faces without bothering to engage the brain muscle? > [@](#): > > You are probably a hard-core smoker or one of those fanatics that thinks the government is out to get you and/or control you. No, I’m a biologist who happens to like a pipe or cigar once or twice a week. I’m a biologist. Junk science and scientific fraud offend me, most mightily. Those who blindly follow a government “study” that is such junk science are nearly as offensive. > [@](#): > > If their report is bullshit - so be it - I still think second-hand smokes sucks and it not your RIGHT to inflict it on me, even if it’s harmless. No problem. You think it stinks. An excellent reason. After all, _de gustibus non disputandem_, or words to that effect. You are free to tell restaurant owners that you and all your friends refuse to frequent their businesses and give them your money. I used to be free to find a venue that permitted smoking. In either case, the government has no right to meddle and take that freedom away. Of course, if you’re one of those whining types who insists that the nanny state do everything for you instead of using your own marketing pressure in a free society, you would insist that the government do everything for you instead of letting you stand on your own two feet. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/24 "2003-08-27T23:41:40Z")
As it so happens, I believe there should be eating establishments for those who like to smoke. I think the law is overkill. Can’t restaurants get around this law by declaring themselves as private clubs, and allow patrons (who smoke) to buy memberships at the door? Non-smokers would not want to be members and everyone would be happy. Nevertheless, I believe it unfair to deride me for “believing” any EPA report. I have neither the time nor the expertise to challenge every single report. I assume they’re doing the proper science you so loudly demand. I have to reason to suspect they’re not. Their “conclusion” that second hand smoke was dangerous seemed believable - I know it messes me up. But I have no agenda, I’m not short-selling tobacco stocks or doing anything that profits by big tobacco’s woes. If this makes me a dupe in your eyes - too bad. I couldn’t care less. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/25 "2003-08-28T03:05:31Z")
The laws that are being pushed by antismokers most heavily grant no exemptions, whatsoever, not even for private clubs. Their propaganda tactic is to claim they are “protecting” the employees. As for the EPA not doing proper science, what do you call pre-rejecting studies that might contradict their desired outcome? What do you call changing the evaluation standards to beneath those acceptable in the sciences? Fascists want people to remain ignorant. “Trust us, we’re the government.” ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566/26 "2003-08-28T11:04:26Z")
I think we’re at cross-purposes here. I too dislike junk science, intensely. And the links you so thoughtfully provided were enlightening. The issues here are when to suspect it, and your insulting posting Quote: Congratulations! You have proven yourself to be utterly incapable of recognizing junk science and scientific fraud. Call me a dupe for expecting governmental “scientific” bodies to do their jobs. Since the EPA’s bogus outcome fell in line with what I would have perceived as the truth, I had no reason to give the issue further thought. This is human nature. And as I mentioned earlier, the news reports as to the EPA using bad/no science to make their conclusions **went passed me**. I didn’t hear about it until I read your posting/attack. It’s why I took such offense; I feel you were treating me like a schmuck for not knowing/ignoring “common knowledge”. You should never make such assumptions about others. And out of curiousity, did you suspect the EPA report was wrong from the get-go, or did you only get your dander up when you heard they used junk science? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-unka-sams-fault-if-youre-fat/197566.md?page=1)