It doesn’t have to be an ultimatum. “Hey, I want to let you know that I’ve been looking elsewhere and I have an offer in hand. I like working here and I like this company, but I don’t think I’ve been properly valued (or compensated, or promoted, or whatever). My preference is to stay here with the right salary/title/whatever. I’m hoping we can work something out.” If they say they can’t do anything, “I’m sorry this didn’t work out, but I have to do what’s right for me and my career, etc.”
Yeah, but I’ve never seen it work, including in my own career.
You can also describe your situation as exactly what it is, dissatisfaction with the working hours. The job you’re in has hours that are not going to work for you anymore. The work itself and the company are just fine, the hours are a problem, you can’t, and will not, continue to work them.
Think of it as if your job involves lifting heavy boxes and you can’t physically do it anymore. This isn’t an ultimatum, you’re not trying to “get” something, you need a job that you can do, and this isn’t it.
Let’s consider something. Your currently employer hasn’t seen fit to raise your pay in your current position or allow you to move into another. If they give you a raise in your current position, how long before you go nowhere with no raises or advancement forthcoming? Furthermore, they might promise you the moon for staying and fail to deliver.
My general advice is to avoid playing games. If you get a better offer then I’d just take it and move on.
OK, but it worked for me the one time I tried it. I wanted to move out of a tech role into more of a banking role at the company I was at, but was willing to take a tech job elsewhere. I got that job lined up, told my management, and they found me a banking role in house.
It all depends on the work environment and the trust levels.
Agreed!! You don’t want it to be interpreted as a threat; i.e., “Well, if you won’t do this, then I’m going to do that!”
There’s also the possibility of what happened to someone I know - he got the promotion/raise and once he taught someone his old function (which took a few weeks) he got fired.
I’m with those who counsel against trying to bargain.
“I’ve applied for that other internal position several times, but I’ve been turned down. I have this other offer now. I’m sorry to do this because I really would rather have stayed, but I’m giving notice.”
Period. Let them read between the lines and make their own choice.
If they value you, they’ll come back and counter on their own. If they feel in any way coerced to counter, the working relationship will be damaged. Let it be their own decision entirely.
And if it doesn’t happen, you have the other job.
Yeah, if you work for a company like that, then telling them is the wrong approach.
Exactly this. If Job C is better than Job A, then take it. If you really want Job B then have a constructive conversation about what gaps you need to fill to qualify. If they can’t articulate them, that’s useful information too.
Years ago I had a good engineer resign for a new position in another state. I took him at his word that he wanted to leave. I figured if he had gotten all the way through the interviewing process to an offer, then he must be ready to move on. I found out later that he didn’t want to leave and just wanted a raise. I’m not good at reading between the lines. If he had just asked for a raise, I would have tried to get it.
Never play games.
Interview with the other company
Accept their offer and resign
Consider a counter if offered.
That’s the thing - he had no way of knowing they were a company like that. They weren’t in general a terrible company - I think they just assumed that he would leave next time the next time he got an offer if they didn’t give in. ( And to be honest, he probably would have)
I once worked for a place that was clearly circling the drain. It was a shame because our small satellite office was outstanding and probably the best team I ever was on and I had a fantastic relationship with my manager. I interviewed and got a great offer and told the boss that I was leaving. He told me to give him a chance. Ask for absolutely anything no matter how ridiculous and he would see what he could do. I didn’t do it because I didn’t want to make them go through the exercise and still not take it. The other was a great opportunity…
…or so I thought. They hired me as part of team of manufacturing experts when they were literally years from having an actual product and were in denial when we told them. We were all laid off a year later. On the other hand, the place I left closed the local office a few months prior to that.
How do you rank the 3 jobs - A, B, and C? All factors considered - hours, pay, environment, commute/work at home, promotion potential, benefits, security, etc?
If C is better than A, then I don’t see any problem with either trying to negotiate or simply leaving. The tricky part is how you compare B and C.
But, as others have noted, don’t say a thing until you have a firm offer of Job C. Good luck, and keep us apprised.
And then still quit. I wanted to move into another group at one company. They wanted me, but politics and the fact that my project was a black hole project (no escape) made it impossible. So I found another job. When I told them, they offered to transfer me. If I was foolish enough to accept, I would have been laid off soon afterwards.
Toxic environments aren’t going to get less toxic with a counteroffer.
That’s true.
My grandfather left his job as a… Em, let’s say engineering consultant in order to take care of his elderly mother. They begged him to stay and told him they’d pay him a full time salary for half time work. But he said his mother gave him a lot and it was a really special bond and he wanted to take care of her full time as an act of gratitude, so he left. He told me that only recently. He loved his job, but apparently he loved his mother more.
I guess that’s one counterpoint to the ruthless business stereotype. It was a major power company.
On the flip side, when my husband decided to leave his group practice to start his own practice, the owner effectively disowned him and ran him out faster than he was prepared for. He told her in advance because he wanted to make for a smooth transition for his clients, but he wasn’t ready with insurance yet. They basically said, “fuck you, get out” and I was in the second trimester of pregnancy, we were months away from him generating any income. You’d expect better from mental health professionals.
People can have over-the-top reactions to finding out someone is leaving. They view it as a betrayal.
So every time I’ve ever given notice, it was with the expectation that I could be immediately shown the door. It never actually happened, but I was always mentally prepared for this, and I had everything in place in case it did.
It took us two separate incidents to learn that lesson, but eventually we did.
In my experience, that’s increasingly the norm, especially at bigger companies. They expect loyalty from their employees, even if they have no particular loyalty to their employees, who can be laid off at a moment’s notice.
At the place which laid me off two years ago, anyone who resigned for another job – even if they gave two weeks’ notice – was shown the door either immediately, or within a day or so. The guy who ran my division (who was my boss, and one of the worst, nastiest people I’ve ever had the misfortune to work with) told me, flat-out, that he viewed a resignation as a personal betrayal, and had zero interest in keeping any such person around for even a moment.
Yes, why not just move on, if you get the offer and it gives you what you want? I assume you know enough about the new company so you don’t have to worry that it will be noticeably worse than the company employing you now. Your seniority, such as it may be, doesn’t seem to be doing you any good.
I would treat your current company as well as possible by giving them the usual notice, and if you get an exit interview (or are asked more informally) I would tell them why you were willing to leave. I don’t think I would offer that up if they don’t ask, though.