Or the employee is a poor fit for Job B despite what they might think. I’ve seen that way more often in my career. Like mediocre technicians applying for engineering or lab manager jobs.
The nice thing about asking for Job B when you have a new job offer in hand, is you can find out if they think you’re wrong for Job B, or if they just want you in Job A.
Which is obviously completely different. We are talking about people who haven’t signed the offer letter.
that’s not an assumption at all, it is the objective truth of the situation. He has been turned down (multiple times!) and, although we don’t know the exact reason, the final conclusion is that they do not believe he would be a good fit for that position.
Now we’re talking about a giant assumption!
exactly. Based on my experience in the corporate world, this is far more likely
It could be any of a number of things, all of which we would have to assume, including:
- The OP isn’t as qualified for Job B as he believes he is
- The hiring manager for Job B doesn’t like the OP
- If the OP has had one or more actual interviews for Job B (versus just submitting an application), he may not have interviewed well
- As mentioned by the OP in his original post, the company may simply really like having him doing Job A
- The OP’s manager in Job A doesn’t want to lose him in that role, and has lobbied against having him considered for Job B
Here’s the thing. I’m sort of dealing with this myself. I have an offer in hand from Company A and I’m waiting on an offer from Company B. Company B might come next week, next month, or never.
The thing is, Company A is hiring me through a staff aug firm on a vague promise of “contract to hire”. The terms of the contract are basically “here is your (low) rate in perpetuity ‘at will’ until we decide we don’t want to employ you any more.” It also stipulates that there is a 90 day evaluation period
So fuck Company A. If Company B makes me a full time offer for more money, why wouldn’t I take it? What fucking “loyalty” is presumed?
OTOH, fuck Company B too. They’ve been talking like I’m going to start work soon at this or that client they have picked out and I’m like “you haven’t extended me an offer yet”. So in this case I’m like “I kind of need to decide on another offer soon.”
But I know how Company B works. My offer is probably contingent on them selling some project they want me to help pitch. Again.. I don’t WORK for you yet!
Sounds more like a lot of middle managers who get butthurt at the thought of anyone challenging their tiny tyranny. So you put them on a mental “do not hire” list for a job they never wanted in the first place.
Here’s the fundamental question. Another company is making you a better offer. Why would you even want to stay at your old company even if they did counter?
I think that’s a bit harsh, but it ain’t untrue.
These two are essentially the same, simply substituting “the company” with his “manager”. But in any event, while it is certainly possible, it’s really shortsighted and not how most companies typically work. If you have applied/interviewed multiple times for another internal position, it indicates you are probably not satisfied with your current position. Companies don’t generally like having unsatisfied employees, because an unsatisfied at-will employee is likely to leave that position for another one, most likely at another employer. If the employer values the employee and thinks they would be a good fit for another position at that company, it is in their best interests to offer that employee that new position, lest they risk losing him to another employer. Keeping a valuable (emphasis added) employee in a position that are unsatisfied with because they “found a sucker willing to work Job A and they don’t want to re-open that position” is not typical, because it’s a really good way to lose said valuable employee.
Now, if that employee is not valuable, well then sure. But the employee isn’t going to have any leverage if they come back with the offer from another company and try to use that to get concessions from their current employer. The current employer will just say “see ya”.
Agreed, and I nearly wrote, in the last point, “Building on the above.”
Either way, in the OP, HeyHomie said:
Which, objectively, would suggest, to me, that either the company really likes him in that role (i.e., he gets great performance reviews, he’s seen as an important contributor, etc.), and/or they don’t think he’s qualified or a good fit for Job B, but as they feel he’s worth keeping in Job A, they are telling him that they “want him” in Job A, rather than flat-out saying “you’re not a fit for Job B,” to maybe keep him (or at least delay him) from leaving the organization entirely.
do you see these two approaches making a difference in whether he decides to leave the organization? I guess I’m curious because, I mean, the ultimate result is the same, he’s not getting Job B, and he remains (at least slightly) dissatisfied with Job A. If it was me, I think I would be inclined to look for a job outside the organization either way.
Not really, but I could see an HR person (and/or his manager in Job A) feeling that focusing on “we really like you in Job A,” and not giving him the full truth on why he’s not getting considered for Job B (in other words, positive feedback with no negative feedback) could keep him around longer. The OP indicates that his company is struggling to fill Job B, but it may also be that they feel that they would struggle to backfill for him if he left Job A (either by a lateral move, or leaving the company).
I’m not saying that’s great reasoning. OTOH, in my experience, throughout my career, while I’ve known and worked with a few really excellent HR people, I’ve also worked with far too many people in HR who are simply not good at their jobs.
Yes, both of these things are true. I’m good at Job A. I’m also good at Job B, because I have to cover sometimes since they’re short-staffed in that role. My thinking is that, and forgive me for tooting my own horn here, I’m so good at Job A that they don’t want me to go to Job B, because they would have to hire someone for my former role in Job A, and a lot of the folks who apply to Job A wind up being duds.
I had a second interview for Job C today, seemed to go well. Had to take a couple of tests (passed easily) and was told that if they want to move forward I’ll hear from HR and have a third interview.
For a minute I was afraid they were going to drag their feet and string this process along unnecessarily.
I was seen at a trade show talking to a member of management of a direct competitor of my company. It was just a polite, “Hi, how are you” conversation but it somehow made it back to my boss that I was fishing for another job. Truth is that I always kept my ear to the ground for another gig but I wasn’t actively looking.
I became aware of the rumor only when I was got called into my bosses office and given a substantial raise I didn’t ask for and wasn’t scheduled to get. But this same company screwed me over on some other issues so I don’t feel like I took advantage of them in any way.
And yeah, I got lucky. Being seen talking to this particular competitor could have easily gone the other way.
… This sounds like a worthwhile investment of your time… and you don’t really have opportunity cost standing on the sidelines . Technically your expected value is positive (best case minus worst-case)… And you can get a feeling for the team and culture before committing.
IOW I see more upside than downside.
I’m going to bet based on all I think I know of you that a) this isn’t office work, and b) this isn’t a big company.
You’re stuck in Job A because the only thing HR & your boss is thinking of is their immediate convenience. They’re not trying to develop you to maximize your potential, they don’t really care whether you’re happy, or growing, or fulfilled. They only care that you don’t produce a problem for them by changing jobs. But they’re confident enough that they have you habituated to staying no matter what.
And they believe that in the small town where you are, the alternatives are so few that they can take you utterly for granted.
I didn’t tell them no.
But I have seen this before. Years ago I interviewed at another small consulting firm and they had me meet some client. Everything seemed to go well but I didn’t hear back until like six months later when they made me a job offer. Like…I’m already settled into a job at this point. Did they think I was just sitting around idle?
So it’s less about my immediate time than it is a red flag for a company that doesn’t really have stable growth or a pipeline of work. Which means long term there probably isn’t much growth or stability.
It’s not uncommon, particularly with newer managers.
A more mature way of looking at someone leaving is you have a new potential contact at another company you might want to work at or do business with.