# Is it worth it to try and remove monuments and names honoring white supremacists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258 "2012-06-25T16:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/81 "2012-07-03T20:27:55Z")
We really don’t have to guess whether Forrest could speak properly. We have, for example, his testimony before Congress, which I think pretty clearly establishes his speaking ability. Some snippets of his testimony: > [@Nathan Bedford Forrest](#): > > I have not read the proclamation since it first came out. I was very actively engaged, and have been since that time, in trying to build railroads and establish factories and founderies in the country. I have been traveling and working all the time, and I have not thought anything about these things. My recollection of his proclamation is that the militia should not be punished or would not be punished for any depredations they might commit upon rebels; that the people there would be treated as rebels, &c; intimating that if a man killed a man who had been in the southern army, there would be nothing done with him. [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q&f=false). > [@](#): > > They voted as they pleased at the last election. About three hundred had come from North Carolina, but they were not entitled to vote; had not been in Alabama long enough; they had been working a portion of the time in Mississippi and did not vote. But all those who were entitled to vote voted without any molestation. I said when I started out with my roads that railroads had no politics; that I the wanted the assistance of everybody; that railroads were for the general good of the country. We have had no political discussion along the line of my road; we had no difficulty. I hired three hundred colored men in North Carolina and they worked for me twelve months; their time was out last May; they were paid off. About hundred and fifty of them returned, and a portion of them, in fact I think all but fifteen, have come back. They got one half of their money monthly until the end of the year, when they were paid off. [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=false). > [@Nathan Bedford Forrest](#): > > My views in regard to this war are probably different from those of most men. I looked upon it as a war upon slavery when it broke out; I so considered it. I said to forty-five colored fellows on my plantation that it was a war upon slavery, and that I was going into the army; that if they would go with me, if we got whipped they would be free anyhow, and that if we succeeded and slavery was perpetuated, if they would act faithfully with me to the end of the war, I would set them free. Eighteen months before the war closed I was satisfied that we were going to be defeated and I gave these forty-five men, or forty-four men of them, their free papers, for fear I might be killed. [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=false). There is nothing in his speech patterns here that is in any way inconsistent with the style of his speech to the Pole-Bearers. (And bear in mind that this is extemporaneous testimony, not a prepared text, as his remarks to the Pole-Bearers would have been.) Tell me **DrDeth** , is it really so hard for you to believe that toward the end of his life Forrest sought to promote racial reconciliation? Ask yourself why this is difficult for you to accept. Is it because admitting this would make Forrest less of a cartoon villain than you would prefer him to be? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/82 "2012-07-03T22:57:53Z")
The question of “worth” has a value perception that will differ between many JMHO, Yes I do think it will be worth it. However, I think we have far greater fish to fry then to sink $$$$ into this now. For me, it isnt a question of worth, but priority ---
**Author:** ![Dufus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Dufus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dufus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/83 "2012-07-04T00:33:10Z")
> [@](#): > > monuments to evil racist men > glorifying the racist general who led one side > without racism, what is left of the history of the South? It begins slavery-racist, it stays racist through the Jim Crow era, and some say it remains racist. > monuments that don’t even mention racism > get rid of odious monuments You guys realize that Benjamin Tillman, Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford, Jefferson Davis, and all the other evil racists were Democrats, don’t you? If anyone tore down evil monuments glorifying evil racists (Democrats all), Democrats would riot and loot and hold up signs saying that it’s a racist Republican plot against them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/84 "2012-07-04T01:21:42Z")
> [@Dufus](#): > > You guys realize that Benjamin Tillman, Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford, Jefferson Davis, and all the other evil racists were Democrats, don’t you? > > If anyone tore down evil monuments glorifying evil racists (Democrats all), Democrats would riot and loot and hold up signs saying that it’s a racist Republican plot against them. Can you show us an example of this actually happening in the past? How about an example of Democrats getting upset when it was just _suggested_ that monuments of this type be torn down? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/85 "2012-07-04T01:24:02Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Oh for pity’s sake. Repeating this over and over doesn’t make it true. You have made an extraordinary claim, and have presented zero evidence to support it, beyond your hunch, and your apparent astonishment that Forrest could string a sentence together in English. > > (And by the way, you do realize that questioning the authenticity of a Forrest speech because he doesn’t come across sounding like Jethro Bodine is akin to questioning the authenticity of a Frederick Douglass speech because he doesn’t sound like Stepin Fetchit? What’s really bothering you about this speech is that it does not conform to the stereotype you have constructed in your head.) > > If you want to see what fabrication of “facts” for latter-day political reasons looks like, you have found it here. There is zero contemporary evidence that Forrest was either illiterate or “semi-literate”. In fact, I have provided you with contemporary sources establishing that he was both well-read and an accomplished speaker. > > :dubious: Here is the speech again. What about this speech, in your opinion, marks it as “General American” dialect of the 1990s?" Were you expecting the reporter to render a Southern accent phonetically? If not, please point out specifically the anachronisms here: > > Your whole argument is absurd. I have cited you two primary sources and a scholarly secondary source for the contents of the speech, and yet you persist in your fantasy that the speech is a “forgery.” [Here is the speech set forth on _The American Catholic_](http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/08/06/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-racial-reconciliation/) website. Co-conspirators or dupes? > > Please point to a post where I have quoted Grant. You know, I never said anything like that. In fact i said i guessed he might sound a little like Mark Twain. And I gave you two cites that said he “_He (NBF) used the provincial language of the Southland_” and "_He (NBF)remained all his life a stranger to book learning and talked what might be called a “cracker” Southern dialect"._ Hell, if Mark Twain can be one of the greatest public speakers of the period,- and still use regionalism, colloquialisms and dialects, why can’t NBF? Are you trying to say that NBF was not only a greater public speaker than MT, but also managed to use a standard English dialect that would not be spoken for a hundred years? I gave you two cites that say otherwise. That’s a great cite and it perfectly proves my point. Note this: _Published Friday, August 6, 2010 A.D_ There are no cites before the latter half of the 20th century (The earliest I found was the 1990’s) that actually quote the entire speech. Not one single biography of NBF quoted that speech before the late 20th century… when it was written. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/86 "2012-07-04T01:43:24Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > We really don’t have to guess whether Forrest could speak properly. We have, for example, his testimony before Congress, which I think pretty clearly establishes his speaking ability. Some snippets of his testimony: > > [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q&f=false). > > [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=false). > > [Cite](http://books.google.com/books?id=hHwUAAAAYAAJ&lpg&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=false). > > There is nothing in his speech patterns here that is in any way inconsistent with the style of his speech to the Pole-Bearers. (And bear in mind that this is extemporaneous testimony, not a prepared text, as his remarks to the Pole-Bearers would have been.) > > Tell me **DrDeth** , is it really so hard for you to believe that toward the end of his life Forrest sought to promote racial reconciliation? Ask yourself why this is difficult for you to accept. Is it because admitting this would make Forrest less of a cartoon villain than you would prefer him to be? Yes, those are great cites- for my side. Read the whole testimony. No one, (other than using a few period words like “reckon” “fetch” “staid” “betwixt” ) speaks in dialect. Not NBF, Not the various Senators, not the other dudes giving testimony, including a couple of men (and a woman) who were fairly recently slaves. In fact they all have about the same “voice”. And there’s a good reason for that. A Congressional secretary took down the testimony and transposed it. His job is to get rid of any dialects or regionalisms, so that everyone could read it. But still note, there are numerous period usages- \*none of which appear in the forgery. \* Unless you’re going to tell me that several Yankee Senators, a CSA General and a number of ex-slaves would all use the same dialect?:dubious: Yes, it is hard- because it’s not the truth. The truth is that NBF who was just about one of the worst racists even in the CSA, and was a brilliant cavalry raider but a incompetent general- is being used by the Southern Apologists as a sort of keyword, a “secret sign” if you would. They can praise the “bravery and skill of this great Southern general”, while all the time laughing up their sleeves at us ignorant Yankees, as they push their own political racist agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Dufus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Dufus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dufus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/87 "2012-07-04T02:01:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can you show us an example of this actually happening in the past? How about an example of Democrats getting upset when it was just _suggested_ that monuments of this type be torn down? Have you ever seen a Democrat miss an opportunity to scream “RACISM”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/88 "2012-07-04T02:51:40Z")
> [@Dufus](#): > > Have you ever seen a Democrat miss an opportunity to scream “RACISM”? Done with you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/89 "2012-07-04T16:31:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, those are great cites- for my side. Read the whole testimony. No one, (other than using a few period words like “reckon” “fetch” “staid” “betwixt” ) speaks in dialect. Not NBF, Not the various Senators, not the other dudes giving testimony, including a couple of men (and a woman) who were fairly recently slaves. In fact they all have about the same “voice”. And there’s a good reason for that. A Congressional secretary took down the testimony and transposed it. His job is to get rid of any dialects or regionalisms, so that everyone could read it. But still note, there are numerous period usages- \*none of which appear in the forgery. \* Have you used the word _oftener_ lately? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/90 "2012-07-04T17:19:19Z")
DrDeth, please explain how the Pole-Bearers speech is “20th Century English” while the Senate testimony is not. Please point out the differences, or point out specific anachronisms you are seeing in the Pole-Bearers speech. Actually, don’t bother. I know you can’t. I’m quite sure at this point that if we produced the speech on a yellowed copy of the Memphis Appeal you would declare it a modern forgery and roll merrily along with your theories. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/91 "2012-07-04T17:36:58Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’m quite sure at this point that if we produced the speech on a yellowed copy of the Memphis Appeal you would declare it a modern forgery and roll merrily along with your theories. Anyone else tired of people declaring victory when their imaginary evidence is denied for imaginary reasons? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/92 "2012-07-04T20:49:41Z")
> [@Dufus](#): > > You guys realize that Benjamin Tillman, Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford, Jefferson Davis, and all the other evil racists were Democrats, don’t you? > > If anyone tore down evil monuments glorifying evil racists (Democrats all), Democrats would riot and loot and hold up signs saying that it’s a racist Republican plot against them. Speaking as a conservative Republican… that’s true, but it’s also irrelevant. To me, the big question is always, WHAT are we honoring the racists for? J. William Fulbright, a very liberal Democrat, was as vile a racist as any man who has ever served in the Senate. Should Fulbright scholarships therefore be renamed? Of course not. The scholarships were named for Fulbright because HE created them, not as a salute to his racism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/93 "2012-07-05T06:59:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Speaking as a conservative Republican… that’s true, but it’s also irrelevant. > > To me, the big question is always, WHAT are we honoring the racists for? > > J. William Fulbright, a very liberal Democrat, was as vile a racist as any man who has ever served in the Senate. Should Fulbright scholarships therefore be renamed? Of course not. The scholarships were named for Fulbright because HE created them, not as a salute to his racism. Ok, you make a point. So let us then take NBF. The 2nd or 3rd best cavalry raider in the CSA, at best a mediocre general otherwise. A slavetrader, just about the worst racist in the CSA. Commited a huge atrocity. Helped found and run the KKK, responsible for the death and terrorizing of thousands of blacks. And, even granting him the Polebearers speech- only means that at the end of his life he sorta apologized without making right all the evils he had done. Why would we memorialize this evil man? Ok, I grant you, a plaque at the scene of the Battle of Spring Hill. There’s dozens of CSA generals that were better than him, and until the Cult of the Lost Cause Apologists and the KKK decided to “push” NBF, most of them were better known. And sure, let us put a small plaque were he gave the "polebearers’ speech, why not? But no schools (he was not a educated man), etc. Of course he would get pretty serious mention at the site of Ft Pillow. Note, I have no objections to memorials to Lee, and even a few to Jackson, Johnson, Longstreet, etc. But the only reason to memorialize this evil man is to support Cult of the Lost Cause Apologists and the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/94 "2012-07-05T16:29:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anyone else tired of people declaring victory when their imaginary evidence is denied for imaginary reasons? You want to help **DrDeth** make his argument, **Czarcasm**? Then please do so, because he is failing miserably. I have cited to two primary sources (_The Memphis Avalanche_ and _The Memphis Appeal_) and to a scholarly secondary source (the Hurst biography) for the text of the speech. The Hurst biography cites to the specific page of the _Memphis Appeal_ for the text of the speech (which the online secondary sources do not). In addition, the _New York Times_ obituary, while not including the text of the speech, confirms its tenor. Given all of that, please step forward with your evidence in support of this extraordinary theory that the speech is a latter-day invention. Because so far, we haven’t seen any such evidence. Just conspiracy-minded speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/95 "2012-07-05T16:48:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anyone else tired of people declaring victory when their imaginary evidence is denied for imaginary reasons? Have you read **DrDeth** ’s posts in this thread? The one where he dismissed a Knoxville newspaper as an “apologist” site because it published a letter to the editor? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/96 "2012-07-05T17:44:36Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I have cited to two primary sources (_The Memphis Avalanche_ and _The Memphis Appeal_) and to a scholarly secondary source (the Hurst biography) for the text of the speech. The Hurst biography cites to the specific page of the _Memphis Appeal_ for the text of the speech (which the online secondary sources do not). In addition, the _New York Times_ obituary, while not including the text of the speech, confirms its tenor. > > . Sure. You mentioned two newspapers, newspapers you haven’t looked at or seen the pages of. Worthless. The other cites are after 1990. And I agreed that that there was a speech and the general tone of the speech. Clearly some Southern Apologist saw that, and wrote the speech that met those parameters. I give you the Chief Seattle speech as a similar case. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/97 "2012-07-05T18:04:42Z")
I have spent some time trying to find the _original_ sources of the speech(the two newspaper articles previously mentioned), and have come up with nothing yet. I have found dozens of sites that copy either the Wiki site or each other, most without attribution, but I haven’t gotten a peek at the newspapers themselves yet. Any thoughts as to where I search? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/98 "2012-07-05T18:24:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have spent some time trying to find the _original_ sources of the speech(the two newspaper articles previously mentioned), and have come up with nothing yet. I have found dozens of sites that copy either the Wiki site or each other, most without attribution, but I haven’t gotten a peek at the newspapers themselves yet. Any thoughts as to where I search? I’ve looked and failed to find them too. And much as I doubt DrDeth’s claim, I want to know why and how **Spoke** ’s claim changed. In post 68, **Spoke** says: > [@Spoke](#): > > …the text of the speech is also presented in [Nathan Bedford Forest: A Biography](http://www.amazon.com/Nathan-Bedford-Forrest-A-Biography/dp/067974830X), which is a scholarly work by Jack Hurst. Presumably, the author has viewed those original sources. Which to me, along with another comment attributing this cite to **Captain Amazing** , is an admission that Spoke doesn’t have the book and hasn’t seen it. Yet in post 77, Spoke says: > [@Spoke](#): > > …he cites to page 1 of the _Memphis Appeal_, July 6, 1875, and provides the full text of the speech. Are you saying Jack Hurst is lying?.. Spoke, please tell us how you got this new information. I see a Kindle version of Hurst’s book is available for $14, and if I had a Kindle I would be tempted. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/99 "2012-07-05T18:36:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note, I have no objections to memorials to Lee, and even a few to Jackson, Johnson, Longstreet, etc. But the only reason to memorialize this evil man is to support Cult of the Lost Cause Apologists and the KKK. I fully agree- in many cases, the very POINT of putting up a monument to Confederate heroes is to offend black Americans. IF, for the sake of argument, Nathan Beford Forrest had established a school or hospital after the Civil War, and that hospital had been named for him, I’d see no good reason to change the name. To name a school or hospital after him NOW wuld be a deliberate attempt to offend black Americas, and I wouldn’t take anyone seriously who argued otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258/100 "2012-07-05T19:03:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Spoke, please tell us how you got this new information. This may come as a shock to children of the Internet, who worship at the glowing altar, but believe it or not, there are these places called “libraries.” And in these “libraries” are things called “books.” Books with words in them. And citations. And _anybody can go there are read them!_ _You don’t even need a computer!_ You know what else you can find in these libraries? _Old newspapers! Some of which, believe it or not, have not yet made it, in pixilated form, onto the Internet!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-worth-it-to-try-and-remove-monuments-and-names-honoring-white-supremacists/626258.md?page=6)