# Is it wrong to force feed a prisoner on hunger strike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851 "2013-07-18T15:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/61 "2013-07-23T05:42:11Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > Without sympathy, I think most protests would be a lost cause. > > Now I am prepared to believe that someone on hunger strike is not trying to garner sympathy for their self-imposed starvation, but rather, they are trying to get support or sympathy for the cause or circumstances that have moved them go on hunger strike. > > You have touched upon a vital truth to this issue, **Tacit Knowledge**. > Without sympathy, hunger striking is merely suicide. > > Congratulations. > > I urge you to explore this strange notion of _sympathy_ more. > You see, giving a shit about other people, even those you disagree with, tends to be a pretty important part of maintaining a functional society. > Now, what would you suggest as a better form of protest for a prisoner who is unjustly imprisoned or is suffering maltreatment? Well sure, of course it is the cause that they hope to get sympathy for. But, depending on the circumstances, there is always other ways to protest than by making your own self weaker and more miserable. In fact, that’s the opposite of what you’d want to do. And sure I have sympathy for mankind. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. You don’t solve your problems by intentionally creating even worse and more dire conditions for yourself. If you INTENTIONALLY make things worse for yourself how can you expect to be taken seriously? Here’s food: eat. Or blame only yourself when you starve. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/62 "2013-07-23T05:44:31Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > [Madame Nhu is that you?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Ngo_Dinh_Nhu#Buddhist_crisis) Lighting yourself on fire would seem to trump going on a hunger strike as about the dumbest way to be heard in your book. Yet it bothered more than just ‘bleeding heart’ types, and Madame Nhu’s public remarks mocking it all but ensured the downfall of her brother-in-law’s regime. > [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > You are correct. Setting oneself ablaze certainly does trump hunger. > > But it seems to me that to give credence (pay them any special mind) to these sorts self destructive protests all you’re doing is fueling the idiocy **Wouldn’t it make more sense -generally, at least - to laugh them off so as to build a social stigma against such stupidity.** And yes, it is stupidity. Just because some idiots on occasion get what they want doesn’t justify or make sensible their acts of idiocy. (bolding mine) Erm… \*\*Tacit Knowledge, \*\*you do know what **Dissonance** is referring to, right? I guess I’m wasting my time. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/63 "2013-07-24T04:48:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Prisoners are wards of the state. The prison system is legally obligated to protect them, even from themselves. So letting them starve themselves is not an option. I agree this is the law. And I’ve read the thread twice, considering the arguments pro and con. IMHO, the law is wrong. To me, self-deliverance should be a basic right. Our response to a hunger striker should be the same as we take to anyone seeking to end his life. Do you understand the consequences? Is this a decision you would regret later? It’s okay to impose a “time out,” measured in days or weeks. Once this has expired, our response should be to accommodate the hunger striker and make his exit as painless as possible. Non-trivially, this would rob the hunger striker of his platform. We’re not doing this because we’re wrong; we’re doing it because we respect your right of self-determination. Do this a few times and posturing (insincere) hunger strikes will lose their power. FWIW, if I were a Gitmo detainee, this is the choice I would make. Not that I hate life. But indefinite detention with no realistic prospect of release sucks. The least you can do is let me out by own decision. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/64 "2013-07-24T12:48:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Those who support force-feeding prisoners: does it bother you that US and World Medical Associations all seem to believe the practice is unethical? > > [From here:](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/21/gitmo-prisoner-force-feeding-violates-medical-ethics.html) Sure it does. But allowing prisoners in the care of our prison system or military to starve to death would bother me more. There’s no perfect answer here, just a few bad ones to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/65 "2013-07-24T14:47:57Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Erm… \*\*Tacit Knowledge, \*\*you do know what **Dissonance** is referring to, right? > > I guess I’m wasting my time. No, sorry. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/66 "2013-07-24T14:53:31Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Sure it does. But allowing prisoners in the care of our prison system or military to starve to death would bother me more. There’s no perfect answer here, just a few bad ones to choose from. You’re using “allowing” as if said prisoners are passive recipients of some sort of food denial plot. In reality, the truth is quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/67 "2013-07-24T15:39:58Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > You’re using “allowing” as if said prisoners are passive recipients of some sort of food denial plot. In reality, the truth is quite the opposite. I’m well aware of that. This thread is about hunger strikes, after all. That said, declining to force-feed someone who refuses to eat _is_ allowing that person to starve to death. It’s the greater of two evils, as force-feeding is highly unpleasant and interferes with a prisoner’s rights over their own body. Within the specific context of a prison, however, the duty to keep prisoners alive is paramount, and force-feeding is the lesser evil. If someone in the free world wanted to go on a hunger strike and die, more power to them. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/68 "2013-07-24T16:32:49Z")
From the New England Journal of Medicine: [Force Feeding, Autonomy, and the Public Interest](http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1056/NEJMp1306325?locale=en). > [@](#): > > Hunger strikes by security detainees pose an excruciating dilemma. Physicians who decry disrespect of autonomy are left to watch treatable patients die. Physicians who extol the sanctity of life are committed to feeding healthy inmates by force. Public officials can neither accede to inmates’ demands nor allow them to die when negotiations stall but instead require humane methods to keep inmates alive. Not a fun position to be in for anyone involved. And those involved are never the politicians or bureaucrats whose decisions led to these situations either. ☹ Also, while the AMA may issue a statement on how it opposes force-feeding, keep in mind that the AMA is a lobbying group, not the spokesman for all physicians. ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/69 "2013-07-24T17:55:28Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m well aware of that. This thread is about hunger strikes, after all. That said, declining to force-feed someone who refuses to eat _is_ allowing that person to starve to death. It’s the greater of two evils, as force-feeding is highly unpleasant and interferes with a prisoner’s rights over their own body. Within the specific context of a prison, however, the duty to keep prisoners alive is paramount, and force-feeding is the lesser evil. > > If someone in the free world wanted to go on a hunger strike and die, more power to them. Actually, I have to agree with that entire post. Well put. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/70 "2013-07-25T06:54:34Z")
For those interested, it’s not universally agreed a hunger strike is impermissible. _See_ these decisions by the [Georgia](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1796474910169776272&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) and [Florida](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2501587152030190978&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) courts. _Cf_. these decisions in [Maryland](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=7397630558702078506&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) and [California](http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=5188485196124073909&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr) regarding an inmate’s right to refuse life-saving treatment in non-hunger strike situations. To be clear, these are minority opinions, see this [law review article](http://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3540&context=mlr), but it’s a subject upon which reasonable minds can disagree. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/71 "2013-07-25T08:19:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Within the specific context of a prison, however, the duty to keep prisoners alive is paramount, and force-feeding is the lesser evil. > > If someone in the free world wanted to go on a hunger strike and die, more power to them. Right, but Prisoners also have a whole bunch of rights which GTMO detainees don’t have, eg the right to a speedy trial, the right to see the evidence against them, etc. Many of the people who are hunger striking in GTMO have never been charged. Some of them have been cleared for release. Morally and ethically you cannot say that force feeding a prisoner who has been tried and convicted of a felony is the same thing as force feeding an “indefinite detainee” who has never been charged with any crime. Legally they are not the same situation either. Are Guatamno bay detainees “wards of the state” that the state has a duty to protect? Who the hell knows, but its not the same answer as it is for US prisoners who have been tried and convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/72 "2013-07-25T12:47:03Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Right, but Prisoners also have a whole bunch of rights which GTMO detainees don’t have, eg the right to a speedy trial, the right to see the evidence against them, etc. Many of the people who are hunger striking in GTMO have never been charged. Some of them have been cleared for release. This is all true, but I don’t see a connection to force-feeding of hunger strikers. [QUOTE=coremelt] Morally and ethically you cannot say that force feeding a prisoner who has been tried and convicted of a felony is the same thing as force feeding an “indefinite detainee” who has never been charged with any crime. [/quote] How is it not the same? The source of the moral duty is the prisoner being at the mercy and in the care of the prison. This is equally applicable to convicted felons and indefinite detainees. Are you suggesting that felons shouldn’t be allowed to starve themselves, but detainees should? If so, why? [QUOTE=coremelt] Legally they are not the same situation either. Are Guatamno bay detainees “wards of the state” that the state has a duty to protect? Who the hell knows, but its not the same answer as it is for US prisoners who have been tried and convicted. [/QUOTE] It may be legally unclear, but the moral duty is quite clear. The detainees are in the care of the Army, forbidden to leave, and at the Army’s mercy. That creates a moral duty to care for them regardless of their legal status as POWs, detainees, criminal suspects, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/73 "2013-07-30T11:12:23Z")
Latest moves are that the companies that provide the feeding substances and anti-emetics necessary are being encouraged to not send such supplies to the US Government- the same tactic being used to try to force the US into the modern world by denying them access to drugs to kill prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/74 "2013-07-30T12:16:32Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Latest moves are that the companies that provide the feeding substances and anti-emetics necessary are being encouraged to not send such supplies to the US Government- the same tactic being used to try to force the US into the modern world by denying them access to drugs to kill prisoners. If the “modern world” believes that it’s ethical to allow prisoners to starve to death, I’m in no rush to join it. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/75 "2013-07-30T13:06:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If the “modern world” believes that it’s ethical to allow prisoners to starve to death, I’m in no rush to join it. Most of the rest of the Western World has forbidden forcible feeding of hunger strikers. The USA is again an exception to the general rule. It stands outwith the humane western Democracies in its own special place. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/76 "2013-07-30T13:11:04Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Most of the rest of the Western World has forbidden forcible feeding of hunger strikers. The USA is again an exception to the general rule. It stands outwith the humane western Democracies in its own special place. > [@](#): > > Humane: characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, especially for the suffering or distressed. Are you sure that the countries where the prison staff stands by and watches a prisoner in their care horribly starve themselves to death are the humane ones? That conduct seems to be in direct opposition to what “humane” means. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/77 "2013-07-30T13:32:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Are you sure that the countries where the prison staff stands by and watches a prisoner in their care horribly starve themselves to death are the humane ones? That conduct seems to be in direct opposition to what “humane” means. It is humane to follow the wishes of a competent and sane person about their own life. We no longer see suicide as a crime. It is only the Government that sees force feeding as moral- the AMA opposes it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/78 "2013-07-30T13:48:43Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is humane to follow the wishes of a competent and sane person about their own life. We no longer see suicide as a crime. > > It is only the Government that sees force feeding as moral- the AMA opposes it. It’s nice that they and you oppose it and all, but what do they and you offer as an alternative? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/79 "2013-07-30T13:51:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is humane to follow the wishes of a competent and sane person about their own life. That’s already off the table, given that these people are incarcerated. That precludes following their wishes. > [@Pjen](#): > > We no longer see suicide as a crime. Force-feeding isn’t about preventing a crime. If the U.S. ever did decide to look the other way on prisoner suicides, this particular method is about the least ethical way to go about it. > [@Pjen](#): > > It is only the Government that sees force feeding as moral- the AMA opposes it. The AMA is entitled to their opinion. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851/80 "2013-07-30T13:51:24Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > We no longer see suicide as a crime. You are in Netherlands? Even there, suicide is not an unlimited right, is it? And nowhere in the USA does a person have the right to take their own life. Maybe we need to change that. But right now, that’s the way it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-force-feed-a-prisoner-on-hunger-strike/663851.md?page=5)