# Is it wrong to have sexual or relationship preferences based on race? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2016, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295 "2016-06-02T09:04:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/101 "2016-06-05T23:23:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I do think some preferences are racist, sure. > > My father, for instance, has openly admitted to being “color-struck”–the name of the condition whereby a black person thinks European features are superior over African ones. He’s not proud of this–I don’t think–and he fully recognizes it comes from a place of self-hatred and insecurity (instilled by his color-struck mother, as well as inculcation by a racist society). But he still has color-struck notions and reveals them sometimes (usually to a roomful of rolling eyes). Is that really about self-hatred, or is that just how humans evolved? Humans, regardless of race, are all the same in the brain. So if we’ve evolved to prefer lightness over darkness, the fact that many of us were born with dark skin is not likely to change that. For example, do races that happen to be shorter on average still prefer taller? If so, that’s less likely to be about self-hatred and more likely to be just how humans in general are wired. Is there any culture with short supermodels, for example? ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/102 "2016-06-05T23:54:33Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Yes its racist yes its sexist in the sense that you have “discriminating” tastes but you know what, in the situation of physical attraction its ok because nobody is going to tell me who I should be attracted to or who I should want to stick my penis inside, as long as we are consenting adults, some sad attempt to make someone feel guilty about who they are attracted to would make me laugh in that person’s face and tell them to get a life. Attraction is a personal thing, and no I don’t find all people or all “races” attractive. Boo fucking Hoo:rolleyes: I don’t define racism as mere preference. To me real racism is the believe that another race is inferior and must be subjugated to a superior one. This is what is morally wrong. Everything short of that is merely a benign choice. Everyone discriminates in one way or another in the choices they make, every, single, day. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/103 "2016-06-06T00:19:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Is that really about self-hatred, or is that just how humans evolved? Humans, regardless of race, are all the same in the brain. So if we’ve evolved to prefer lightness over darkness, the fact that many of us were born with dark skin is not likely to change that. There’s no evidence that evolution has driven a preference for light skin over dark skin. This is pretty much a wild guess, and I’ve always found guesses that just so happen to match the pseudoscientific “racial science” of past centuries to be extremely questionable at best. Further, while the dating website data may show that black women are responded to less than white and Asian women, the same is not true for black men (actually, Asian men, who usually have lighter skin than black men, receive the fewest responses, according to the data cited previously). So the data doesn’t match this hypothesis either. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/104 "2016-06-06T00:21:03Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I don’t define racism as mere preference. To me real racism is the believe that another race is inferior and must be subjugated to a superior one. This is what is morally wrong. This is one type of racism, but there are many – belief that one race is inferior but _shouldn’t_ be subjugated is still racist. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/105 "2016-06-06T00:30:52Z")
The onetime views of the late Mr. Ali aside, I think it’s probably part of the normal male drive to spread one’s seed as widely as possible and it that means _way_ over there, so much the better. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/106 "2016-06-06T00:35:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is one type of racism, but there are many – belief that one race is inferior but _shouldn’t_ be subjugated is still racist. the subjugation type is the one that is morally wrong ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/107 "2016-06-06T01:52:56Z")
The others are just inherently so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/108 "2016-06-06T02:23:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no evidence that evolution has driven a preference for light skin over dark skin. This is pretty much a wild guess, and I’ve always found guesses that just so happen to match the pseudoscientific “racial science” of past centuries to be extremely questionable at best. > > Further, while the dating website data may show that black women are responded to less than white and Asian women, the same is not true for black men (actually, Asian men, who usually have lighter skin than black men, receive the fewest responses, according to the data cited previously). So the data doesn’t match this hypothesis either. Sure there’s evolutionary evidence: we’re naturally afraid of the dark. THe idea that it’s all about self hatred is also just pseudoscience. We don’t actually know for sure why there are certain traits that most people prefer. But most people do seem to prefer lighter, taller, healthier, and at least the last one most definitely has an evolutionary purpose and the middle one probably does(bigger men can protect better). The latter is probably not direct evolution, but probably just related to the fact that humans identify lightness with good and darkness with evil. This has been true even in non-white cultures, which is why the Aztecs thought white men were gods. There is no culture in the world that identifies darkness with good and light with evil. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/109 "2016-06-06T02:29:30Z")
There’s a difference between having an aesthetic preference for certain skin colors and racism. As a general rule, I only cry racism when you categorically reject all people of a given race. Especially if you use such euphemisms as “I don’t have jungle fever”–something I saw on a dating site recently. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/110 "2016-06-06T02:38:17Z")
Personally, I always look at people crossed-eyed when they say, “I don’t date outside my race”. I also have to wonder about couples who look so much alike that they could be related. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/111 "2016-06-06T03:28:22Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Why is this any different from say women who will only date “tall” men? It’s just another genetic factor out of a person’s control. Just because race is a protected class and height isn’t? Because height is a real attribute, while race isn’t. It’s the difference I mentioned between not being attracted to dark skin and not being attracted to black women. I mean, I once met a white woman who looked exactly like Lisa Bonet back in the Cosby days. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/112 "2016-06-06T03:35:36Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Does it make me sexist if I only date women? Are you positing that there is some innate sexual drive that is only attracted to specific races? Because, if not, there’s no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/113 "2016-06-06T05:01:16Z")
There is also the phenomenon of people being attracted to people that closely resemble themselves, take a minute one day and look at married couples very often they have an extremely similar skeletal structure in the face and similar noses and things like that, I’ve even noticed among couples of two different races even if their skin contrasts often they still have similar faces and skeletal structures of the face, its a real thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/114 "2016-06-06T05:27:37Z")
Geez, I hope not. My standard of beauty is pretty much the opposite of what I see in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/115 "2016-06-06T05:32:37Z")
[ol] [li]Cut a hole in a box[/li][li]Put your junk in that box[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/116 "2016-06-06T08:43:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sure there’s evolutionary evidence: we’re naturally afraid of the dark. THe idea that it’s all about self hatred is also just pseudoscience. We don’t actually know for sure why there are certain traits that most people prefer. But most people do seem to prefer lighter, taller, healthier, and at least the last one most definitely has an evolutionary purpose and the middle one probably does(bigger men can protect better). The latter is probably not direct evolution, but probably just related to the fact that humans identify lightness with good and darkness with evil. This has been true even in non-white cultures, which is why the Aztecs thought white men were gods. There is no culture in the world that identifies darkness with good and light with evil. Bullshit. If you think that most humans, regardless of cultural background, prefer lighter skin, then show some data that suggests this. I haven’t seen such data – and the dating website data directly contradicts this, since Asian men get fewer responses than black men. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/117 "2016-06-06T09:11:32Z")
That’s taller competing with skin color. And yes, colorism is a thing, and it’s pretty much universal: > **[Discrimination based on skin color](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color)** > > Discrimination based on skin color, also known as colorism, or shadeism, is a form of prejudice and discrimination in which people who share similar ethnic traits and people who are perceived as belonging to a darker skinned race are treated differently based on the social implications that come with the cultural meanings that are attached to their darker skin color. > Research has uncovered extensive evidence of discrimination based on skin color in criminal justice, business, the economy, housin... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/118 "2016-06-06T09:42:25Z")
I think throwing up your hands in the air and going “Welp, that’s just how evolution wired us” is a cop-out. Evolution wired us to do _lots_ of things we no longer consider moral. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/119 "2016-06-06T10:38:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s taller competing with skin color. And yes, colorism is a thing, and it’s pretty much universal: > > [Discrimination based on skin tone - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color) Of course colorism is a thing. A bad thing in culture and society. Where did I deny this? But you claimed that skin color preference was driven by evolution, and that’s what I call bullshit on. That’s a wild guess, and seems as ignorant of a guess to me as claiming that some old notion of racial hierarchy is driven by evolution. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295/120 "2016-06-06T10:55:08Z")
It’s also a wild guess that it’s based on self-hatred. Mr. Dibble, no one is throwing their hands in the air. It’s just that if colorism is how we’re wired to think, then that calls for different solutions than if we think it’s caused by imperialism(on whites part) and self-hate(on darkers peoples’ part). If we theorized that racism is caused primarily by being taught to hate by other racists(which many people actually believe is true), then we’d just take kids away from racists and we’d have no racism in two generations. But since racism is part of our natural evolution, in fact it was a very important survival mechanism, then it’s something that can only be solved by getting people to think with their higher brain functions rather than their primal instincts. Of course, since we are human, our tribalism just tends to be more sophisticated. We don’t eradicate it so much as redirect it into more socially acceptable forms. But I digress. Since personal relationships are one of the few areas of life where racism is still acceptable, as long as it’s not expressed in a particularly hateful fashion, it’s a better window into how people really think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-have-sexual-or-relationship-preferences-based-on-race/756295.md?page=7)