# Is it wrong to insult Ginger people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969 "2007-06-06T10:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/21 "2007-06-06T13:21:27Z")
But 'ware the Daywalker! ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/22 "2007-06-06T13:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] And which insults should never be used? [/QUOTE] What, you want a list? I’d say that pretty much every racial epithet should never be used, including (but not limited to): Nigger Coon Kike Wop Spic Chink Wetback Slant Gook Etc, etc… I’m sure there are many more I’m not even familiar with, but you get the idea. If you need an explaination of _why_ they should never be used, then that’s a whole different thread which I suspect will end up in the Pit. Plus I think your assertion that calling someone a nigger isn’t racist to be beyond laughable. Just try that on the street and see how far you get with your explaination… ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/23 "2007-06-06T13:23:54Z")
[QUOTE=Lars Aruns] Insulting black people is being racist, [/QUOTE] So if I call a black guy an idiot… that’s racist? There’s an implication your sentence and the OP title that I do not agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/24 "2007-06-06T13:26:40Z")
People are getting insulted based on having _red hair_? If I could find my copy of _Roots of Desire_ by Marion Roach… _hunts it down_ ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/25 "2007-06-06T13:33:53Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] What, you want a list? I’d say that pretty much every racial epithet should never be used, including (but not limited to): Nigger Coon Kike Wop Spic Chink Wetback Slant Gook Etc, etc… I’m sure there are many more I’m not even familiar with, but you get the idea. If you need an explaination of _why_ they should never be used, then that’s a whole different thread which I suspect will end up in the Pit. Plus I think your assertion that calling someone a nigger isn’t racist to be beyond laughable. Just try that on the street and see how far you get with your explaination… [/QUOTE] I didn’t want a list, I wanted categories. So what’s so special about an insult that can be used in a racist way? Surely you would agree with me that “can’t swim” is not, in itself, a racist insult - but at the same time can be used as such. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/26 "2007-06-06T13:45:25Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] I didn’t want a list, I wanted categories. [/quote] If it’s categories you want, how about “All Racial Epithets” for starters, closely followed by “All insults based on sexual preference, religion and disability”. > [@](#): > > So what’s so special about an insult that can be used in a racist way? “Nigger” is not a special insult that can be used in a racist way - it’s an insult that is _directly targeted_ at someone’s race. That’s what makes it racist. > [@](#): > > Surely you would agree with me that “can’t swim” is not, in itself, a racist insult - but at the same time can be used as such. I’m really not sure I understand this at all. How can “can’t swim” be used as a racial insult? Is there some racial group that’s usually stereotyped as being unable to swim? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/27 "2007-06-06T13:48:35Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] So if I call a black guy an idiot… that’s racist? [/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing. My vote is no, that’s not racist, but I suppose some will disagree. You can’t be too careful. If a bunch of children are playing on the monkey bars at a playground, and you say, “You kids look like a bunch of monkeys,” you could be in real trouble if any of them are black. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/28 "2007-06-06T13:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] If it’s categories you want, how about “All Racial Epithets” for starters, closely followed by “All insults based on sexual preference, religion and disability”. [/QUOTE] And what’s so special about these categories? In particular, what’s different about them to being ginger? [QUOTE=Book Monster] “Nigger” is not a special insult that can be used in a racist way - it’s an insult that is _directly targeted_ at someone’s race. That’s what makes it racist. [/QUOTE] No, it’s racist to be insulting them because they are black. If you set out to insult them for non-racist motives (for example they have let their dog take a crap on your lawn\*) then using words targeted at their race is not racist. [QUOTE=Book Monster] I’m really not sure I understand this at all. How can “can’t swim” be used as a racial insult? Is there some racial group that’s usually stereotyped as being unable to swim? [/QUOTE] I think black men, although I may be wrong here. \*No idea why this came into my head ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/29 "2007-06-06T13:59:51Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] So if I call a black guy an idiot… that’s racist? There’s an implication your sentence and the OP title that I do not agree with. [/QUOTE] Ok, I forgot to put a little extra bit to clarify it, but I was hoping that the rest of the phrase after the comma would make it understandable. Insulting someone of a particular ethnicity for being of that particular ethnicity (calling a black a nigger, calling a Chinese a chink, or anything of that form, really) is evil and to counter it education is required. Insulting someone, of whatever ethnicity, not because of the ethnic origin, but because of an even more superficial feature (fat, ginger hair, hairy, hairless, whatever) is also evil, but more rude than evil, and to counter it politeness is required. Both should not be done, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/30 "2007-06-06T14:04:02Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] And what’s so special about these categories? In particular, what’s different about them to being ginger? [/quote] There’s no difference whatsoever. I think it’s wrong to insult someone because they’re ginger because it’s a facet of their appearance over which they have little control. On the whole I’d say that the other categories I mentioned were slightly worse because as yet we haven’t had any massacres, lynchings, slavery or holy wars based on hair colour. > [@](#): > > No, it’s racist to be insulting them because they are black. If you set out to insult them for non-racist motives (for example they have let their dog take a crap on your lawn\*) then using words targeted at their race is not racist. I disagree completely. If you use insults targeted at their race, then it’s _always_ racist regardless of your motive. If their dog shits on your lawn then you can call them a “filthy fucker”, but not a “filthy nigger”. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/31 "2007-06-06T14:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] I disagree completely. If you use insults targeted at their race, then it’s _always_ racist regardless of your motive. If their dog shits on your lawn then you can call them a “filthy fucker”, but not a “filthy nigger”. [/QUOTE] Why on earth not? Because of the misdeeds of our forfathers? I belive the best insults are those that insult things that people cannot help. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/32 "2007-06-06T14:08:57Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] And which insults should never be used? [/QUOTE] Well, “nigger” is at the top of my list. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/33 "2007-06-06T14:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] How on earth is it racist? It’s just an offensive derogatory term. Racism is discriminating against people because of the colour of their skin. [/QUOTE] Do you know what the word “Discriminate” means? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoderk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cryptoderk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoderk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/34 "2007-06-06T14:21:14Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Do you know what the word “Discriminate” means? [/QUOTE] 1. trans. To make or constitute a difference in or between; to distinguish, differentiate. 1628 PRYNNE Love-lockes 26 Who poll one side of their headsof purpose to discriminate themselues from others. 1666 BOYLE Orig. Formes & Qual., Such slight differences as those that discriminate these Bodies. 1774 WARTON Hist. Eng. Poetry (1775) I. Diss. I. 65 No peculiarity..more strongly discriminates the manners of the Greeks and Romans from those of modern times. a1871 GROTE Eth. Fragm. iii. (1876) 59 Capacities which discriminate one individual from another. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/35 "2007-06-06T14:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=OP] Is it wrong to insult Ginger people? [/QUOTE] Is it wrong to make blonde jokes?. There is no “practical discrimination” against either blondes or redheads, I believe. Ditto for birthmarks, crappy hair, polydactilia, bad fashion sense, or a whole host of cosmetic variations. But that the discrimination has no practical ramifications, doesn’t make it less bothersome to the affected. Having people pointing at you and making jokes, day and night, has to get really annoying at some point. And some people are more frail than others when it comes to putting up with verbal abuse. You could really break a person with jokes and insults. Make them hostile or self-destructive. There is real damage possible. So, yes, singling out people for their uncontrollable inability to meet some arbitrary social standard is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/36 "2007-06-06T15:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] Why on earth not? Because of the misdeeds of our forfathers? [/quote] No, because calling someone a nigger is flat-out _wrong_, here and now. You’re targeting an insult specifically at their race. You’re demeaning and discriminating against a particular ethnic group and if you seriously don’t get why this isn’t acceptable, then there really isn’t much hope for you. All I can suggest is that you avoid losing your temper with any black people because if you call someone a nigger in this day and age you’re going to wind up trying to explain your theories to the local constabulary. > [@](#): > > I belive the best insults are those that insult things that people cannot help. And that’s why we probably woudn’t ever ever be able to enjoy a pint together. that and the fact that I don’t drink… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/37 "2007-06-06T15:17:59Z")
[QUOTE=Cryptoderk] Why on earth not? Because of the misdeeds of our forfathers? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cryptoderk] No, it’s racist to be insulting them because they are black. If you set out to insult them for non-racist motives (for example they have let their dog take a crap on your lawn\*) then using words targeted at their race is not racist. [/QUOTE] You are wrong and I have no idea where you got these ideas. The issue is not one of the misdeeds of previous generations: ethnic insults continue to be a way to harm people, today. Different specific insults in different contexts may have less or more harm, depending on context and local culture, but in general they continue through the present. When you use an ethnic slur because a person’s dog violated your lawn, you change the situation from one of anger that you may have been harmed to one where you are the more offensive person for resorting to ethnic slurs. There is nothing inherent in any race or ethnicity that caused the person to allow their dog to roam–that is just inconsiderate behavior common to humans. By making the issue one of ethnicity, you have made the matter a bigger deal by implying that they are inferior due to their birth. * * * I don’t think many Yanks are going to be able to participate in the discussion of “ginger”: as the Beeb article notes, it is just not a problem in the U.S. Aside from “red-headed stepchild” I can’t think of a single anti-redhair insult in the U.S. Claims that “redheads” are more prone to fighting (more commonly seen in popular fiction before WWII or even before WWI), don’t quite make it to the level of insult, given that Yanks are rather proud of any displays of feistiness. (In fact, I suspect that there may be a connection, in that red hair is a Celtic trait and it may be associated with Irish and Scots both in the U.S. and England. As those grpoups became mainstream in the States, the insult tended to die out.) The only place I can recall hair color being an issue in fiction published in the U.S. was in the Canadian Anne of Green Gables. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/38 "2007-06-06T15:22:22Z")
If we can’t make fun of common stereotypes, what CAN we make fun of? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/39 "2007-06-06T15:33:12Z")
Personal idiosyncracies? ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-insult-ginger-people/406969/40 "2007-06-06T15:34:47Z")
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