# Is it wrong to lie to my grandmother about NOT being an atheist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469 "2004-06-09T16:26:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/41 "2004-06-10T12:48:41Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My, what a pleasant fellow. For starters, I’m a woman. What is wrong with simply sitting silently while the religious in the lot speak their bit, and then getting on with the meal? That’s simple courtesy. To bow your head is to pretend you’re buying into something so people won’t be mad at your or drop dead of a religious heart attack because _someone doesn’t believe the same way they do_. Or does granny then turn around and pretend to be an atheist for you? Heh. Fucking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/42 "2004-06-10T13:00:17Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Bowing your head doesn’t mean pretending to pray. It _is_ a show of respect that other people are doing something important to them. It’s analogous to standing up during the pledge of allegiance, during another country’s anthem or being quiet during the funeral of someone you disliked. You don’t have to recite, sing, emote or do anything beyond not making a production over how thoroughly you don’t share the occassion. Sitting silent while someone expresses his or her religious beliefs at a table of mixed faiths is polite. The same as not talking over someone else is polite. Bowing one’s head to imitate prayer is called “bullshitting the old people.” The old people who obviously don’t return the respect they demand of you. > [@](#): > > How is showing respect and concern for people of _any_ age “coddling”? In this particular instance, **SHAKES’** grandmother is extremely elderly, and apparently in frail health. She’s not up to emotional confrontations, and lacks the time to adapt gradually. Maybe if Shakes’s family didn’t lead the woman to believe everyone was something they’re not, they wouldn’t be in this predicament. Now, no one knows who anyone really is, and everyone puts on a facade. I don’t know his grandma, but my guess is that if she’s sitting at the table conversing and dining with the family, she’s not as frail as some people might think. I have never heard of anyone dying because a family member didn’t hold the same faith as everyone else. I mean, really… > [@](#): > > Making a production of individual beliefs doesn’t convey much self respect to me, much less strength or depthl. Most people _do_ fervently believe all kinds of things, from politics to religion to music and on. So what? Must everybody put on a technicolor sound-and-light show of 'em all in the name of honesty and independent thought? Who said anything about making a production out of it? They’re the ones making a mountain out of a molehill – what, with all the acting and bullshitting going on. Its a wonder anyone can keep it all straight! Look, if she asks why you’re not praying, tell her. I guarantee she’ll live through the horrible news. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/43 "2004-06-10T13:11:52Z")
> [@hillbilly queen](#): > > I’m with the “don’t tell unless asked”, crowd. A few years ago my in-laws found religion. They had always considered themselves christians, but were’nt very active. Then BAM! They started going to church every sunday, spending all their money on church things, and all the other cult-like activity. As far as they know, the only reason my husband and I don’t attend church is because of his schedule. They think that I’m a good little christian, and that’s fine with me because I know they wouldn’t understand my reasons for not being one. And also because I love them, and I think it would hurt them to know otherwise. Doesn’t it hurt YOUR feelings to know they judge your whole person by your faith? What if you were a devout Jew or Muslim? Would that put you in the “bad” column? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/44 "2004-06-10T13:12:56Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > **They started going to church every sunday, spending all their money on church things, and all the other cult-like activity.** > > Is it a cult if people go to bars every Saturday night and spend all their money on alcohol things? 🙂 Yes, it is. And I’m here to tell you first-hand, that the de-programming is taking _decades!_😉 ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/45 "2004-06-10T20:05:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If I were you, I’d scream “I don’t worship your little man on a stick!” and start pelting gramma with biscuits. I’m saving this one for the door-to-door Mormons/JWs. Priceless. As for your situation, **SHAKES** , I can empathize. It was very difficult for me to come out as a Socialist to my staunch Republican grandmother, years ago now. I can’t offer much to you besides what others have written - if you’re asked to do something that makes you uncomfortable or contradicts your personal philosophy, weasel out of it as tactfully as you can and leave it at that unless and until Grandma asks you why. And once it’s out in the open, by all means don’t avoid discussion (my grandma and I had a very civil discussion on the war in Iraq when I saw her last Christmas) but don’t allow Grandma to pit you just for being an atheist, either. If she can’t help being intolerant about it, just say you don’t want to discuss the subject with her anymore. Period. Then the ball’s in Grandma’s court as to where to go from there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/46 "2004-06-10T21:46:21Z")
I think **Kalhoun** ’s right, but that was probably obvious to begin with. Apparently it’s more okay to bullshit old people. > [@TVeblen](#): > > Bowing your head doesn’t mean pretending to pray. Yes, in this context, it does. You’re telling **SHAKES** to keep quiet about his views and bow his head to make grandma assume that he’s praying and avoid a conflict. Maybe it’s a white lie, but encouraging people to assume things about you is a form of lying. > [@](#): > > Frankly I think “honesty” is used far too often as an excuse to behave aggressively toward others. People, even close and loved relatives, don’t have to 1. know and 2. agree absolutely on every belief or opinion. They certainly don’t have to agree, but telling people your opinion when they ask you to do something contrary to it is not aggressive. If you’re a vegetarian and somebody gives you a steak at dinner, are is saying “I don’t eat meat” ‘being aggressive?’ Maybe lying keeps the peace in the family, but I don’t know if that peace of mind is really worthwhile if you have to lie for it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/47 "2004-06-11T13:03:59Z")
I assume that grandma came to her religious views after some serious brainwashing (as most people do). Maybe she’d be relieved to finally be “off the hook” so to speak. Maybe she’s always found the pomp and circumstance of religion to be limiting and silly. Maybe she’s been looking for an out for a long time! If you don’t discuss religion in an open, healthy manner, you’ll never know. Everyone will continue on like lemmings, never thinking…always following the others over the cliff. If you’re fine with that – hey…it’s your business. But it’s still lying. And again…I’d like to stress that I really don’t think granny will die when you tell her you’ve chosen another path. She may well feel that she’s lost her power over you (but then you knew that, didn’t you?), but she won’t die. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/48 "2004-06-11T14:49:36Z")
It might be interesting to observe Mikhail Gorbachev at Reagan’s funeral. To see how an atheist with tact conducts himself when surrounded by the trappings of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469/49 "2004-06-11T15:12:00Z")
I vote for saying your just “not really that religious.” It wouldn’t be a lie anyhow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-lie-to-my-grandmother-about-not-being-an-atheist/249469.md?page=2)