# Is it wrong to remain in the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339 "2020-02-01T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/1 "2020-02-01T19:45:22Z")
We’re heading downhill faster and faster, away from democracy and toward oligarchy. If my employer was as corrupt as our leadership, I’d change jobs, I wouldn’t want to be a part of such a thing. But what about when it’s your country? Is it wrong to stay? Staying in order to vote sounds good superficially, but I live in a very blue state and my votes in the presidential election are relatively worthless. I could move a few miles north to Pennsylvania which would make my vote pretty valuable, but if I were going to move for political reasons it’d be to get away from here. And yes, I always vote, though this year it’s going to seem like a pretty sad exercise. Donating sounds good superficially, but with all the corporate and billionaire money on the other side, it’s starting to seem more and more just a waste of money. And yes, I have always donated (though this year it’s hard to muster the will to do so). I’m just haunted by the idea that it’s wrong of decent people to stay. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/2 "2020-02-01T19:58:41Z")
Where exactly would you go? And why would they let you in? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/3 "2020-02-01T20:12:18Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Where exactly would you go? And why would they let you in? One of the other ex British colonies, perhaps, or Scandinavia, or western Europe. But if noplace else would have me, then I don’t have an ethical dilemma anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/4 "2020-02-01T20:29:23Z")
Yes. Yes, everyone should leave now. Let’s everybody march on down into Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/5 "2020-02-01T21:08:07Z")
If all the decent people who can afford to do so leave, that would be a guarantee that things would get worse, wouldn’t it? And then what about all those who can’t get out? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/6 "2020-02-01T21:14:10Z")
If you really and truly want to leave its the very right thing to do. If worse comes to worse let me know; I have some juice in Western Asia. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If all the decent people who can afford to do so leave, that would be a guarantee that things would get worse, wouldn’t it? > > And then what about all those who can’t get out? a) It depends on how much of their money they figure out how to take along with them. b) It wouldn’t be very much different from today. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/7 "2020-02-01T21:17:55Z")
It’s a bit easier to change jobs than it is nationalities, and yet, people stay with the same company for decades past the time that they really should have left. Not having a job can be worse than having a bad job. Same with countries. I’d rather live in a bad country than no country at all. You also, unlike in a company, actually have some input over the way the country is run. If you have an opportunity to go somewhere that you think you will like more, then go for it, but I wouldn’t go looking because you are disaffected by our political landscape. Strategic moving for voting, OTOH, may be something we can get behind. Get a couple hundred thousand people to move to South Dakota for six months and a day, and we can get another senate seat, and three electoral votes. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/8 "2020-02-01T21:36:43Z")
If the US sucks as badly as the OP seems to think it does, then why do we have a border crisis and millions of uninvited aliens? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/9 "2020-02-01T21:58:08Z")
You can whip yourself into quite a frenzy nowadays paying too much attention to various sources on TV and internet (which frenzy depends which ones 🙂 ). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/10 "2020-02-01T22:00:58Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I’m just haunted by the idea that it’s wrong of decent people to stay. This makes no sense to me. How is decreasing the number of decent people in the country supposed to make anything any better? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/11 "2020-02-01T22:01:37Z")
If you agree with the way things are run, vote. If you don’t like the way things are run, join a political party. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/12 "2020-02-01T22:15:10Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > If the US sucks as badly as the OP seems to think it does, then why do we have a border crisis and millions of uninvited aliens? Because those people aren’t the OP. Duh! They are different people. And different people have different motivations. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/13 "2020-02-01T22:15:44Z")
If all the good people had bailed out the US during the bad times, then we’d still have slavery, child laborers, no enfranchisement for women, and no environmental regulations. I’m not going to start thinking about migrating until bombs are literally fall down on me. Until then, I’m going to do whatever I can to be one of the “good people”. And I refuse to fall into despair. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/14 "2020-02-01T22:17:35Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > One of the other ex British colonies, perhaps, or Scandinavia, or western Europe. But if noplace else would have me, then I don’t have an ethical dilemma anyway. Anybody else notice whenever people want to flee the United States it’s always to the whitest of countries? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/15 "2020-02-01T22:22:53Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This makes no sense to me. How is decreasing the number of decent people in the country supposed to make anything any better? What I’m struggling with is that I’m contributing to the economy. And I’m an unwitting accomplice in the whole system. I’m paying taxes that support the policies. I belong to most of the privilege groups including all the important ones, with the exception that I’m not in the top fraction of a percent of wealth where political power is. Tactically, life is comfortable. So it’s not how I’m getting treated that’s the problem. It’s what’s being carried out on my behalf. Kind of like discovering the club you belong to prevents entire categories of people from belonging. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/16 "2020-02-01T22:30:37Z")
“As goes the United States, so goes the world. Hunkering down in Canada – or even New Zealand – is not an option the way it might once have been. There is nowhere to hide from an unhinged America. There is no benevolent foreign power to step into the breach if America loses its way. Hope is not a strategy” Opinion piece on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com), from a Canadian who became a naturalized US citizen the day before yesterday. > **[After three decades, I finally decided to become a US citizen. Here's why. | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/01/opinions/us-citizen-trump-oath-of-allegience-macintosh/index.html)** > > Until recently, I never wanted to become a US citizen, writes John MacIntosh. The election of President Donald Trump and his capture of the once-great Republican Party changed all that. That seems pretty well thought out. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/17 "2020-02-01T22:31:09Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Anybody else notice whenever people want to flee the United States it’s always to the whitest of countries? Ex-British colonies are mostly white? I guess Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/18 "2020-02-01T22:38:20Z")
Then of course there’s this: "WASHINGTON—Confirming the challenges associated with preserving liberal democracy, the nation’s top political scientists issued a report Friday that found fighting against the rising tide of authoritarianism sounds like a ton of work. " > **[Report: Fighting Rising Tide Of Authoritarianism Sounds Like A Lot Of Work](https://www.theonion.com/report-fighting-rising-tide-of-authoritarianism-sounds-1841390886)** > > WASHINGTON—Confirming the challenges associated with preserving liberal democracy, the nation’s top political scientists issued a report Friday that found fighting against the rising tide of authoritarianism sounds like a ton of work. “After... ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/19 "2020-02-01T23:35:10Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > If the US sucks as badly as the OP seems to think it does, then why do we have a border crisis and millions of uninvited aliens? Because there are even worse places than the US. I once looked into going elsewhere. As it happens, no one else wants me. Well, they’d be happy for me to visit as a tourist and spend money, they just don’t want me to move in permanently. For better or worse I’m stuck here. ---
**Author:** ![Majestic\_Lee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Majestic\_Lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Majestic_Lee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/20 "2020-02-01T23:42:51Z")
The grass isn’t always as green on the other side as it may look. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339.md?page=2)