# Is it wrong to remain in the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339 "2020-02-01T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/101 "2020-02-07T02:14:49Z")
I have duel passports(USA/UK) I’ve lived as a resident in five different countries, as well as relitives in Belgium. The USA is the best country in the world. I’ve ridden out, the Cold War, Vietnam, the recession, Replacement NFL players, Space shuttle Columbia, Nixon, Ford, Bush 1 and 2 Clinton, Obama, and now Trump. If you think it’s better elsewhere, go. I’m staying. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/102 "2020-02-07T03:23:08Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Thirty years ago a woman I knew married an Australian. All of his family was in Australia, while she had no family anywhere. They logically decided to head to Australia. > > He, as a citizen, was welcomed back home. While his wife could accompany him, she could not work in her field, as that would potentially be taking a job away from a citizen. They struggled along for a while, but after about 5 years she was ok’d for work. That’s odd. I started off (30 years ago) with a spouse visa in Japan before I got permanent residency (the equivalent of a green card) and there were no restrictions for working. I have a spouse visa here in Taiwan with no restrictions for working. Looking up the partner visa specifics for Australia, there are two visa, the [Partner visa (temporary)](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-onshore/temporary-820) and then the permanent one. This one allows people to work. It says the processing time is Processing times 75% of applications: 22 months 90% of applications: 27 months Perhaps it took longer then for some odd reason, but five years is a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/103 "2020-02-07T11:07:14Z")
Take a break from social media. Take a break from here. Take a break from taking on the problems of the entire world. Concentrate on your world immediately around you and the people that matter in your life for a while. It may give you a fresh perspective. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/104 "2020-02-07T11:30:08Z")
My wife, a Canadian nurse, and I walked into Jordan and asked if we could work there. The Minister of Health himself said start at 9 oclock tomorrow morning. They tolerated me as part of the deal. They took care of all the paperwork and handed the permits back to us. Then the other side of the story. Two yeaes later we were hired for jobs in Madagascar. By the time we arrived, the dictator had a fit, no more foreign workers, alien permits were not being renewed, and the person who hired me had already been rotated out. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/105 "2020-02-07T14:11:40Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > I’m not sure that it’s because they are white, but that they already speak a language most Americans sort-of understand. And because they’re almost always developed, first-world liberal democracies. That, I think is the biggest draw, not the whiteness of the country. I mean, Mexico’s a fun place, and is in world terms, a middle class country, but if I had to pick, I’d still choose Canada or the Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/106 "2020-02-07T14:40:31Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Looking up the partner visa specifics for Australia, there are two visa, the [Partner visa (temporary)](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/partner-onshore/temporary-820) and then the permanent one. This one allows people to work. It says the processing time is > > Processing times > 75% of applications: 22 months > 90% of applications: 27 months > > Perhaps it took longer then for some odd reason, but five years is a long time. Maybe Australia’s immigration laws have changed. Initially she was under the impression she might never be able to be employed in her field. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/107 "2020-02-07T15:30:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Maybe Australia’s immigration laws have changed. Initially she was under the impression she might never be able to be employed in her field. We lived in Australia, while my husband worked off shore. Beautiful country, taxes are excessive though. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/108 "2020-02-08T09:48:49Z")
Another issue can be housing. In a lot of countries, non-nationals are prohibited from owning real property. Also, most developing countries have horrific housing shortages. If a rental becomes available, it will be gobbled up quickly by word of mouth’ Even in Canada, half the provinces restrict how much farmland a foreigner can own. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/109 "2020-02-08T10:52:52Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > If the US sucks as badly as the OP seems to think it does, then why do we have a border crisis and millions of uninvited aliens? When ranking tanking countries on the Trumpian Shithole Scale, you are at the top of the heap when compared to even worse shitholes, but when ranking countries on things like the Democracy Index, you’re a flawed democracy not even making it into the top couple of dozen. [The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Index_by_country_2019) ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/110 "2020-02-08T11:38:57Z")
It’s been a bizarrely busy few days for me and I’ve not posted, but am still engaged. I’ve always wondered what’s the exchange rate for converting political donations to votes. In fact I posted this as a question years ago, but as I remember the answers were of the form “there is no exchange rate and there is no answer”. But I pursued this further online the other day with the search term “dollars per vote” and came up with many answers. It’s a subtle question, and for my purposes the question is more specifically “what is the marginal exchange rate” whereas there is more information available on the question “how many dollars total and how many votes total”. Nevertheless, there is a lot of information on the subject, and numbers are often in the order of magnitude “$10 to $100 dollars donated generates one vote”. And this is quite significant. I think it’d cost me, say, $10,000 to move a few miles north, from an extremely blue state to a very significant swing state (not to mention considerable effort). Donating that money instead should generate 100 to 1000 votes. Well, I’m not going to donate that much, in part because of all the other things that need money. But I usually donate much more than $100 per election cycle, which means I usually contribute the equivalent of more than one swing state vote. This makes me think if I continue donating several hundred dollars per election cycle, I’m net positive on my ethical impact on the political order, and don’t have to move to a swing state. It feels a bit mercenary, and perhaps like a rationalization, but presently that’s my theoretical framework. By the way, I do already spend about as much volunteer time as I think health and work obligations allow, and would think of adding volunteering for political organizations as hardship. They might say it’s better for me to work harder and donate more money. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/111 "2020-02-08T20:56:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Maybe Australia’s immigration laws have changed. Initially she was under the impression she might never be able to be employed in her field. Work permits are very industry-dependent. If you’re lucky enough to work in an in-demand industry, and especially if you’re willing to, say, go work in a not-a-capital-city in the health industry, you’ll have a much easier time of it. Also, like most other first world countries, there are way more people wanting to come here than we can comfortably manage to fit in each year, so under the circumstances there’s no particular incentive for immigration officials not to be jackholes if the mood takes them. And people who like to be jackholes pop up in customs and immigration the world over. Your friend may have found one! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339/112 "2020-02-26T06:20:09Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And then what about all those who can’t get out? Which is probably about 90% of us, anyway. I don’t know if people here really believe it’s easy to immigrate into a foreign country, or if it’s a spontaneous half-baked idea influenced by memories of the Cold War, when the big topic on the table was how the Communist countries wouldn’t let their citizens _out_. Today all you hear about is countries not wanting to let migrants _in_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-remain-in-the-united-states/847339.md?page=5)