# Is it wrong to use paid "sick days" as vacation days from work when not sick? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718 "2011-06-08T05:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/61 "2011-06-08T20:32:20Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > It’s funny, I’m just reading “Metamorphosis” where the main character discovers, on waking up, that he’s been transformed into a giant insect of some unspecified kind. His first worries are that he’s missed his train, and he can’t call in sick, because he’s never called in sick and actually he feels fine so he thinks it would be dishonest. > > For the record, if I turn into a cockroach, I’m definitely taking the day off. Oh no. I’m _going_ to work _that_ day. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/62 "2011-06-08T20:52:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I recently started a shiny new corporate job, which incidentally is the first time I’ve been paid on salary and not by the hour (yay!). The company handbook allows for some mandated holidays (like Christmas, Labor Day, etc.), 10 vacation days/year, and 5 paid sick days which can not be accumulated from year to year. I happen to be of pretty sound constitution and rarely get sick - even when I do it’s fairly minor and I tend to work anyway. > > I feel like if I claim those sick days when I’m not actually sick it would be kind of “playing hookey” and would feel wrong, yet I’d also feel like they were wasted if I didn’t use them. What is the typical rule of thumb here? You only get 10 vacation days a year? Holy crap. I get 14 and even that’s on the low end of the spectrum. No offense, but I’d hate to work for your company. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/63 "2011-06-08T20:56:55Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > You only get 10 vacation days a year? Holy crap. I get 14 and even that’s on the low end of the spectrum. No offense, but I’d hate to work for your company. Do you live in the United States? 10 day is typical for new hires in the US. it usually bumps up after X# of years with the company. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/64 "2011-06-08T20:57:06Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Oh no. I’m _going_ to work _that_ day. Seriously, is cockroach a big change from dung beetle? Who’s going to notice? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/65 "2011-06-08T21:18:43Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Companies that differentiate between sick days and vacation days are full of shit. At my previous work places, there was simply paid time off, and you were free to use it due to illness, trip to the Bahamas, or the desire stay at home and watch paint dry. Companies that allot for sick time and personal time separately are trying to weasel you out of time off. My firm changed their policy a couple of years ago so that now, we get all time off under one bucket. HR basically acknowledged that good employees were basically being forced to lie and call in sick when they really just needed a day off for whatever reason, and that was stupid. So, yeah, I wouldn’t encourage anyone to break company policy, but having a policy that divides sick time and vacation time is just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/66 "2011-06-08T21:36:38Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > You only get 10 vacation days a year? Holy crap. I get 14 and even that’s on the low end of the spectrum. No offense, but I’d hate to work for your company. Well 10 discretionary days plus the mandatory holidays, of which there are 9. So 19 vacation days total (and of course the 5 sick days). ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/67 "2011-06-08T21:40:51Z")
Okay, I really don’t want to come across as being on some kind of moral high horse here, and I also wonder whether this is a US thing, but I do actually think it is wrong to used paid sick leave when you aren’t sick. I’ve always looked at paid sick-leave as not penalizing you for being ill as it is outside your control and you’d do the work if you could. By the same token, I think being healthy should’t have to be rewarded. In fact, if you say that being healthy should be rewarded, are you not implying that the sick are being ill on purpose? Not saying I have never pulled a sickie myself, but always with a guilty conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/68 "2011-06-08T21:46:27Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I don’t have a problem with people taking a sick day if they’re not sick. However, don’t pull this on a day when the company is already thinly staffed. I started a pit thread about people calling in sick the day after the Super Bowl. I’d also be pissed about people calling in sick right after a 3 day weekend or if they wake up and see that the stock market is likely to take a huge dump that day (I work at a brokerage firm) At my company, if you take an unscheduled day off right before or right after a holiday, you don’t get paid for the holiday. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > You only get 10 vacation days a year? Holy crap. I get 14 and even that’s on the low end of the spectrum. No offense, but I’d hate to work for your company. I work in one of the top 200 largest public companies in the US (90,000 employees) and 10 days is standard for corporate employees for their first five years. Non-corporate employees get even less at first. On the other hand, when I left my old company, I had 23 vacation/personal days and more holidays than I do here. It’s highly dependent on the industry. (I moved from a Big Four accounting firm to a huge retail organization). ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/69 "2011-06-08T21:46:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Most companies spell out the policy for sick days, otherwise, their is no agreement. If the policy says sick days are for people who are actually ill and have a valid medical reason for not working, then you are stealing if you take a sick day when you are not sick. If your employer doesn’t pay you when you are out sick, you can sue them, and they will lose, and may be subject to further action by the state. If you take a sick day when you are not sick, they could sue you, and they would win. Your excuses wouldn’t work in court, and they don’t change the ethics of the situation either. You agree to the terms when you take the job. I’ve never in my life heard of any employer suing an employee because the employee took a sick day when they weren’t really sick. I can’t even imagine them winning that suit - and not because “everybody does it”, but because it’s not the company’s place to decide if someone qualifies is “really sick”. Employers are not entitled to demand the details of their employees medical records. They have no right to sit in judgement of what qualifies as “sick.” It’s not an “excuse” to say that employee/employer agreements go both ways. If the employee is promised X days a year, it’s not unreasonable to expect the company to provide X days a year. Expecting the employee to voluntarily refrain from taking that part of their compensation package is wrong … but sadly, about par for course in current US management-worker relations. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/70 "2011-06-08T21:50:34Z")
Holy shit, I can’t believe the number of self-righteous, morally superior replies in this thread (actually, I guess I can). Oh noes! You’re lying to your shitty corporation, which would never lie to _you_ and always thinks of your feelings above all else! What an unethical louse you must be! Fuck that. I’ve rarely taken a sick day when I was actually sick, nor have most of my co-workers, from the conversations I’ve had. If the company has a problem with it, it can change the sick day policy. I feel no guilt about this at all. Especially since I know _everybody lies every single day of their lives_. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/71 "2011-06-08T22:05:07Z")
I think stress management falls into the category of health. If you’re worn out, overwhelmed and stressed and simply need a day off to decompress, thereby avoiding future issues you are not in anyway violating the definition of “sick”. Good companies do not call sick days “sick days”, they call them “personal days”. If you need to make a doctor’s checkup where you are not sick, so be it. If you need a mental health day, so be it. Many jobs discourage workers from using their vacation time one day at a time thereby taking every other Friday off or some such, as a result you might have little opportunity to get a one day reprieve from the stress. I’ve never worked at a company where they even asked what my “sickness” was, that seems to be none of their business and might even be a HIPPA violation. As with most things in life, don’t abuse the system and get your job done and everything magically goes smoothly. I suspect that companies are far and few between who will rake a excellent employee over the coals for a non-sick sick day. If you’re a crappy employee, well that might be a different case. If you are taking a sick day in the middle of the companies busiest week or missing deadline because of them then I suspect questions will be raised, and still I doubt many HR managers would allow a manager to terminate for that reason alone for fear of some legal action. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/72 "2011-06-08T22:10:32Z")
Menal health days are generally accepted in our work place by management and the concern is more if too many rack up as a sign of worker burnout or whatever. But one worker took a sick day then worked somewhere else that day and got caught. Dismissed immediately. Most people seemed to agree with that, so with a mental health day allowance, theres an unspoken contract that its not really a holiday as such. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/73 "2011-06-08T22:24:27Z")
> [@ethelbert](#): > > I have always thought of it as taking a mental health day. I bet \*\*TriPolar \*\*has taken a few of those. I don’t know about **TriPolar** , but I don’t handle those situations as sick days (which don’t roll over year to year). I use a vacation day (which DO accumulate year to year). Because my particular condition renders me essentially useless for several days, I suppose technically I could ethically use the sick days. However I have chosen not to medicate and arguably am bringing it on myself–it’s questionable in the same way as using sick days for a hangover. But to the OP: IMHO it’s not ok to use sick days as vacation just because they’re there. I view it as an abuse of mercy. If the company were resigned to everyone taking their 5 days, or whatever, they’d just give you an extra 5 days of vacation and expect you use that when you’re sick. But they don’t have it set up that way because the 5 days is more a measure of how much mercy they’re willing to have. ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/74 "2011-06-08T22:36:47Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Especially since I know _everybody lies every single day of their lives_. Dude, you can take all the sick days you want. You obviously need them! 😃 Since this is IMHO, I take what people say as their opinion. You are obviously welcome to your own. If the OP didn’t want their opinion, they wouldn’t have asked. And the OP doesn’t seem too upset about the responses, so please don’t feel you need to be upset for them 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/75 "2011-06-08T23:00:41Z")
I’m not getting “upset” for anybody but myself. I just get annoyed that no matter how innocuous an offense, a lot of people on these boards will take it as an opportunity to get all schoolmarm-ish about it. Why anyone would bother to judge someone for something that hurts nobody is beyond me. As far as everybody lying, I’ve yet to meet the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/76 "2011-06-08T23:02:15Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Holy shit, I can’t believe the number of self-righteous, morally superior replies in this thread (actually, I guess I can). I have to say, I’m at least as amazed as you, but for the complete opposite reason. It’s not that I feel or even wish to be morally superior (although I’ll understand if you perceive it as such), it’s just that I honestly had no idea the entitlement view of sick leave was so widespread and was held so defiantly. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/77 "2011-06-08T23:04:39Z")
Guess it depends on how your company treats you, and how loyal you are to them. Personally, I’ve never felt any particular love for any of the companies I’ve worked for. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/78 "2011-06-08T23:24:22Z")
True enough - and there’s a fair spectrum of corporate attitudes ranging from workhouse to holiday camp, which I’m sure flavours people’s experiences and attitudes. For the last twenty years or so, I happen to have had a series of positions that were jobs I chose, but wanting to do them has usually been a factor in getting appointed to them too - and they have happened to be for employers who recognised those who made the effort. I work for local government at the moment, where there still prevail some serious pockets of apathy and terrible work ethic, but it’s a vicious circle for some of these people - they’re not given opportunities to develop because their attitude stinks, and their attitude stinks because they’re stuck in a dead end job. They seem to want it handed them on a plate, which just isn’t going to happen. There’s no reason for it to happen. This is good for me though, because a person only has to be moderate in competence, conscience and diligence, to be perceived as well above average. In truth, I know I’m neither brilliant nor overly devoted to my work - it’s just that the background is dark enough to make me look bright. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/79 "2011-06-08T23:33:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I honestly had no idea the entitlement view of sick leave was so widespread and was held so defiantly. [The US works too fucking hard.](http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/06/pf/work_less/) “Americans, on average, work 350 hours more each year than Europeans. That’s 9 weeks of labor.” “…average working hours in the United States rose nearly 12 percent between 1973 and 2000.” (And back in 1973 you could support an entire family on a single blue-collar income. Try that today) “In France, for example, national law guarantees workers 11 public holidays, a minimum of five weeks paid vacation, and a 35-hour work week.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718/80 "2011-06-08T23:43:27Z")
That may be true. I’m in the UK and I currently get 26 days paid leave per year, plus 5 or 6 bank holidays, plus the opportunity to earn some extra days off via flex and lieu hours worked. I don’t know what the deal is for sick leave (I could look it up, I guess). I don’t feel the need to take sick days as if they were leave, although there are those that do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-wrong-to-use-paid-sick-days-as-vacation-days-from-work-when-not-sick/584718.md?page=5)