# is James Bond the same character / a code name **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233 "2010-11-19T17:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/1 "2010-11-19T17:14:57Z")
I have already made up my mind that James Bond is the same character in every movie but another question came up that I am more interested in: is M the same character? clearly I think M in the Brosnan movies is a different character. But what about the M who was in the Dalton movies (and maybe 1 or 2 Moore movies, I don’t remember)? I like to think he is the same character as the original M. I think Q clearly passes on his job to another character. what about Moneypenny? ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/2 "2010-11-19T17:18:28Z")
I always took it that James Bond was the agent’s personal name, 007 was his title/ranking/position/serial number and that posts like M and Q were filled by different people who passed down that letter. Using this logic, I figured Moneypenny was the personal name of the lady. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/3 "2010-11-19T17:27:55Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > but another question came up that I am more interested in: is M the same character? The real-life head of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) is always known as “C” so M being different characters is easy to justify. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/4 "2010-11-19T17:30:21Z")
Bond is clearly intended to be the same character from film to film (and book to book), even though the different actors give him different personalities and quirks, and he’s written differently from film to film (although Richard Maibaum at least co-wrote most of the first Bonds, so there’s quite a bit of continuity). “M” was supposed to be the same character until the actor playing him, Bernard Lee died. In the books, “M” took his identifying letter from his name, Sir Miles Messervy (never used in the movies), just as in real life the head of that section used his single initial as an identifier. I don’t think the letter was passed on in real life (and the situation didn’t arise in Fleming’s books), but in the films they clearly had Judy Densch using the same letter,m even though at first she was a different character, apparently as a way to keep a sense on continuity. Since the Daniel Craig reboot, the question is moot, and Densch is obviously the one and only “M”. (In Alan Moore’s _League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_, the letter “M” as head of the Service is used to designate different people, starting before Bond’s “M”, even.) “Q” stands for _Quartermaster_, a post, not a person, and so it’s not a person. In the Fleming books, there’s a “Q branch”, but no “Q” (John Gardner changed that with his later Bond books). In the filmms, the character is at first called “Armorer” or “Quartermaster” and is twice called “Boothroyd”, the name that Fleming gave the character. After Desmond Llewelyn left the series (and died), John Cleese took over as an obviously different Quartermaster “Q”. Miss Moneypenny and Felix Leiter are obviously supposed to be the same people throughout the films, despite being played by a great many people (only two guys so far have played Felix more than once). ---
**Author:** ![Silent\_Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Silent\_Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silent_Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/5 "2010-11-19T17:43:47Z")
I like the theory put forth on the recent Doctor Who edition of the Craig Ferguson show: James Bond is a Time Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/6 "2010-11-19T17:59:32Z")
I seem to recall a Miss Moneypenny saying she was the daughter of the original. Am I imagining that? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/7 "2010-11-19T18:05:37Z")
It’s like the Batman actor changes, different actors playing the same characters. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/8 "2010-11-19T18:40:22Z")
M is played by yet another actor (and is kind of a twit) in **Never Say Never Again** the remake of Thunderball with Connery. Clearly Bernard Lee was not going to abandon the main movie series. I don’t remember if there was an M in the first movie Casino Royale. I seem to remember a sequence in the newer Casino Royale where Desmond Llewelyn handed over the job to Cleese. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/9 "2010-11-19T18:46:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > \ > > I seem to remember a sequence in the newer Casino Royale where Desmond Llewelyn handed over the job to Cleese. I thought they appeared together, also, but in an earlier movie. I think Cleese was a newbie or assistant, and then when Desmond Llewelyn died, Cleese took over the part. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/10 "2010-11-19T18:48:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I seem to remember a sequence in the newer Casino Royale where Desmond Llewelyn handed over the job to Cleese. I think that was one of the last Pierce Brosnan movies, “Tomorrow Never Dies”. Neither Cleese nor Llewelyn were in “Casino Royale” and Llewlyn wasn’t in “Die Another Day” which was the sequel to TND. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/11 "2010-11-19T18:52:20Z")
In one of the recent movies, with Judi Dench as M, she says something about “my predecessor”, referring to a previous M. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/12 "2010-11-19T18:56:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t remember if there was an M in the first movie Casino Royale. If you mean the 1966 version, there was; played by John Huston, no less. In fact his death sets the plot, such as it was, in motion. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/13 "2010-11-19T19:06:31Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > I thought they appeared together, also, but in an earlier movie. I think Cleese was a newbie or assistant, and then when Desmond Llewelyn died, Cleese took over the part. Cleese was introduced in \*Tomorrow Never Dies \*(1997). LLewelyn made his exit in \*The World is Not Enough \*(1999). He died in a car crash just days after the film was released. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/14 "2010-11-19T19:11:18Z")
Cleese was introduced in in _The World is Not Enough_, not _Tomorrow Never Dies_. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/15 "2010-11-19T19:23:11Z")
Remember the movies aren’t supposed to take place over almost 40 years, but, rather, during the career of a singular 007 - later Moneypenny being the early Moneypenny’s daughter doesn’t work. It’s not clear if there were 2 or 3 Ms for the original series - though apparently only Lee’s version was specifically referenced after Dench took over. (A portrait appearing in The Living Daylights.) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/16 "2010-11-19T22:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > M is played by yet another actor (and is kind of a twit) in Never Say Never Again the remake of Thunderball with Connery. Clearly Bernard Lee was not going to abandon the main movie series. I don’t remember if there was an M in the first movie Casino Royale. That was Edward Fox, who was excellent as The Jackal in the original _Day of the Jackal_, and pretty good as Miller (David Niven’s old role) in _Force 10 from Navarone_, but seems to have mostly been shunted to stuffy British offical roles. Bernard Lee wouldn’t go to another series, I’m sure – some of the cast who appeared in _Operation Kid Brother_ (starring Connery’s Kid Brother) – Lois Maxwell, and Bernard Lee – caught hell for doing so. Besides which, Lee died in 1981, well before they made _Never Say Never Again_. As noted, John Huston played “M” in the godawful first version of _Casino Royale_ (except for the TV version on “Climax!”, which had no M) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/17 "2010-11-19T22:49:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > …In the books, “M” took his identifying letter from his name, Sir Miles Messervy (never used in the movies), just as in real life the head of that section used his single initial as an identifier. I don’t think the letter was passed on in real life… On the contrary, as **Baron Greenback** points out above, in real life the head of the Secret Intelligence Service always signs documents “C”, no matter what his or her name is. The original head of the service was Sir George Mansfield Smith-Cumming, and he always signed his correspondence with his initial (one of them, anyway). Later heads of the organization continued to do so, ostensibly to maintain anonymity, but one suspects really out of the British love of quirky traditions. It is by no means an official title, but more a nickname. Rather like the manner in which whoever heads up anti-drug efforts for a presidential administration is called “the drug czar”. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/18 "2010-11-19T22:55:35Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Later heads of the organization continued to do so, ostensibly to maintain anonymity, but one suspects really out of the British love of quirky traditions. The really quirky tradition is that documents signed by “C” are always signed in _green ink_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/19 "2010-11-20T13:44:32Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The really quirky tradition is that documents signed by “C” are always signed in _green ink_. 😃 I think I’m remembering from the original (Ian Fleming) books that M signs in green ink? It’s interesting, M in the books is always called “M.” In _Moonraker_, his name is “revealed” as “Sir M\*\*\*\* M\*\*\*\*\*\*\*” (exactly that number of asterisks.) It’s not until the last book, _Man with the Golden Gun_ that he’s referred to as Admiral Sir Miles Messervy. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233/20 "2010-11-20T15:32:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The really quirky tradition is that documents signed by “C” are always signed in _green ink_. 😃 Bill Bryson, an American writer who lived in Britain for several decades, wrote that a fundamental principle for every British institution is that it puzzle foreigners. Of course, in that regard, you Brits are merely highly-talented amateurs. The pros are the Japanese. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-james-bond-the-same-character-a-code-name/561233.md?page=2)