# Is JK Rowling transphobic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105 "2019-12-19T19:47:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/341 "2019-12-28T01:49:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And many women and [women’s](https://nwlc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Womens-Groups-Sign-on-Letter-Trans-Sports-4.9.19.pdf)[groups](https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/meet-the-feminist-academics-championing-trans-rights)[don’t](https://genderequal.nz/feminism-and-trans-rights-must-go-hand-in-hand/)[disagree](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/09/feminist-mps-throw-support-behind-transgender-women.html). > > Why are they right? Appeal to authority is a fallacious argument. You’re in Great Debates, where you are expected to make a reasoned case for the position you are advancing, not just cite some people who agree with you. > [@](#): > > You know, these "trans women who have lived the majority of their lives enhanced with endogenous testosterone and lack female secondary sex characteristics that make females weaker and slower than males:"[they are consistently beaten by biological women.](https://threader.app/thread/1132435853404512263) That is not a rational argument either. It’s like saying that because athletes using performance-enhancing drugs often lose their competitions, then doping is all well and good. And I’m sure politicians who buy votes and rig voting machines can lose win when paired against a strong enough opponent too, but that wouldn’t make the election fair. If biological differences between males and females are now considered unimportant when it comes to women’s athletics, women have every right to be concerned about this. It shouldn’t require us to see whole bunches of women losing competitions against non-HRT treated transwomen before we flag this out as an issue. > [@](#): > > You WaNT tO knOW mY STancE oN THIs? My stance is “is there a problem? What is it you think the problem actually is?” It’s helpful to have you state what your position is. I don’t like making assumptions. Prior to this thread, I didn’t think there were that many people shrugging their shoulders at biological males competing against biological females for athletic scholarships, Olympic medals, and other honors. Now I see that I may be wrong about that. > [@](#): > > When I think of all the things that transgender activists are fighting for: I never imagined they would be fighting for this. I mean… Transgender activists are fighting for what? For people to disregard biological sex altogether? Really? I thought they were fighting for trans folk to have rights under the law. To be able to live as their identified gender in peace. If their goal is to completely overwrite how human beings categorize each other, then they’ve overplayed their hand. Without biological sex we don’t have reproduction. And you didn’t even answer my question. I can’t tell if you think it’s inappropriate to refer to a stranger—whose gender identity is unknown—as a man or woman using biological sex cues. This is not a gotcha question. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/342 "2019-12-28T02:08:31Z")
We have–or, have had–several trans posters on these boards. I don’t know that any are left, and as far as I know, the ones that have left have all left because of the aggressive ignorance of folks around trans issues. One form this aggressive ignorance takes is bizarre hypotheticals that don’t resemble the reality of anyone’s experience. It’d be keen if there were less talk of female-identifying folks who dress and groom facial hair like linebackers, less talk about how reproduction itself is on the table. It’d be keen if folks thought about whether their words were respectful. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/343 "2019-12-28T02:52:36Z")
I’d be keen on hearing from transgendered folks who feel some kind of way about a free-for-all definition of gender. My imagination may be totally wrong, but I imagine it’s gotta be hard for some people who have experienced dysphoria their whole lives to now be told that feeling dysphoria, no matter how super intense, doesn’t distinguish them in any meaningful way from the person who just wants to experiment as another gender. So it seems to me that transgendered folks who place a lot of emphasis on gender dysphoria as a justification for a sex/gender change are pushing a definition of gender that is vulnerable to gate-keeping (“If you say you don’t feel like Gender X in the absence of other apparent signs of Gender X, then I am probably going to have a hard time seeing you as Gender X.”) I’d be keen on hearing from transgendered folks who hope that research supports the “gendered brain” concept based on the belief that it will lend credibility/validity/objectivity to transgenderism. Because it seems to me that folks who argue from this standpoint are pushing a definition of gender that is vulnerable to gate-keeping. (“If your neurology doesn’t ping as Gender X in the absence of other apparent signs of Gender X, then I am probably going to have a hard time seeing you Gender X.”) “Hard time seeing you as Gender X” \<\> “You are a crazy, stupid, or inferior person.” It just means that someone is having a hard time perceiving you as the thing you are saying you are. The only other thing it could possibly indicate is that there’s a good possibility that person will have some unpleasant feelings about you if you should happen to read their thoughts and then yell at them for being so hateful. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/344 "2019-12-28T02:56:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Appeal to authority is a fallacious argument. You’re in Great Debates, where you are expected to make a reasoned case for the position you are advancing, not just cite some people who agree with you. …except that wasn’t an appeal to authority. You said some women disagreed with me, I said some women agree with me, and, unlike you, gave some examples of women and groups that did. That is an entirely reasonable thing to do in Great Debates. It wasn’t meant to “advance my case”: it was a simple rebuttal to something that you said. > [@](#): > > That is not a rational argument either. It’s like saying that because athletes using performance-enhancing drugs often lose their competitions, then doping is all well and good. And I’m sure politicians who buy votes and rig voting machines can lose win when paired against a strong enough opponent too, but that wouldn’t make the election fair. It isn’t rational to argue that “trans women who have lived the majority of their lives enhanced with endogenous testosterone and lack female secondary sex characteristics that make females weaker and slower than males” is in any way relevant to why some “non-trans women to object to competing against trans women.” Why are they objecting? Performance enhancing drugs actually enhances performance. Being transgender does not. There is no comparison. > [@](#): > > If biological differences between males and females are now considered unimportant when it comes to women’s athletics, women have every right to be concerned about this. It shouldn’t require us to see whole bunches of women losing competitions against non-HRT treated transwomen before we flag this out as an issue. Is there a movement advocating for non-HRT treated transwomen to be able to compete against women in sports? > [@](#): > > It’s helpful to have you state what your position is. I don’t like making assumptions. Prior to this thread, I didn’t think there were that many people shrugging their shoulders at biological males competing against biological females for athletic scholarships, Olympic medals, and other honors. Now I see that I may be wrong about that. I did state what my position was. My position was "“is there a problem? What is it you think the problem actually is?” Transgender people are already competing with women for athletic scholarships, are allowed to compete for Olympic medals and other honors. Why is that wrong? > [@](#): > > \*\*Transgender activists are fighting for what? \*\*For people to disregard biological sex altogether? Really? I thought they were fighting for trans folk to have rights under the law. To be able to live as their identified gender in peace. If their goal is to completely overwrite how human beings categorize each other, then they’ve overplayed their hand. Without biological sex we don’t have reproduction. They are fighting for their lives actually. > [@LGBT Health](#): > > Compared to the general population, LGBTI people are more likely to attempt suicide in their lifetime, specifically: > > LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 are five times more likely > **Transgender people aged 18 and over are nearly eleven times more likely** > People with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over are nearly six times more likely > LGBT young people who experience abuse and harassment are even more likely to attempt suicide > > Statistics for LGBTI Population > > 16% of LGBTI[2] young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide[iv] > **35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over[3] have attempted suicide in their lifetime[v]** > 19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status > 8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide, 18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse[vii] > > … > > Self-Harm[5] > > Compared to the general population, LGBTI people are more likely to have engaged in self harm in their lifetime, specifically: > > LGBT young people are nearly twice as likely to engage in self-injury > \*\*Transgender people are six and a half times more likely > \*\*People with an Intersex variation are three times more likely > LGBT young people who experience abuse and harassment are even more likely to have self-harmed > > … > > There are differences between the mental health and wellbeing of Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people, and Transgender and Gender Diverse people people, specifically: > > Transgender people higher rate of suicide attempts than LGB people, which is nearly eleven times more likely to attempt suicide than the general population > Trans people are nearly three times more likely to have had thoughts of suicide than LGB people combined, and are twelve times more likely to have thoughts about suicide than the general population > Trans people experience high levels of psychologcal distress, compared to moderate levels experienced by Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people > Trans people are nearly twice as likely to be diagnosed or treated with a mental disorder and anxiety than Lesbian and Gay people, and nearly three times than the general population > > … Much more at the link. > **[Snapshot of Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Statistics for LGBTIQ+ People](https://www.lgbtiqhealth.org.au/statistics/)** > > The 2021 update: Although many LGBTI Australians live healthy and happy lives, research has shown that a disproportionate number experience poorer mental health outcomes and have higher risk of suicidal behaviours than their peers. I’m Maori/Samoan. I come from a marginalised community. The statistics (healthcare, crime, suicide, drugs) are really bad. But the statistics for the transgender community are even worse. Every metric. The are the subject of a massive rise of transphobic hate crimes in the UK (numbers already cited in this thread). They are having their rights stripped in America, they can’t even join the military anymore. They’ve been driven away from these boards. It really is time to stop looking at the issues in such a superficial dismissive way. I don’t pretend to understand all there needs to know about the issue. I still make mistakes. But I can’t sit on the sidelines on this. > [@](#): > > And you didn’t even answer my question. I can’t tell if you think it’s inappropriate to refer to a stranger—whose gender identity is unknown—as a man or woman using biological sex cues. This is not a gotcha question. I didn’t see your question there: I was too busy rolling my eyes at the ridiculous scenario you had invented for me to get outraged about. I used to do this all the time. I do it less now. I use more ambiguous language until I am clear on how a subject would prefer to be referred too. But this honestly is the least important issue on the table. Nobody was outraged when the OP accidentally misgendered someone earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/345 "2019-12-28T03:02:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We are at the beginnings of the [post-truth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-truth) age… > [@](#): > > I stand by my words. The gender critical crowd want to deny transgender people the right to exist and they are actively fighting in the courts to make it so. Boy, you said it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/346 "2019-12-28T03:16:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Boy, you said it. …you keep taking pot-shots at me, but you’ve been missing all thread. And you’ve done it again. Another swing and another miss. The gender-critical crowd do want to deny transgender people the right to exist. What is it do you think they are fighting for? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/347 "2019-12-28T03:30:47Z")
I stumbled upon this [blog](https://sportsscientists.com/2019/03/on-transgender-athletes-and-performance-advantages/?doing_wp_cron=1577498426.7299880981445312500000) that examines transgendered women and sports in a (IMHO) fairly balanced way. The take-home that I get from this piece: Both sides of the debate need more evidence before they dig in their heels anymore than they already have. But it isn’t unreasonable to have rules for who should considered be a woman athlete in some sports, given what is known. > [@On Transgender athletes and performance advantages](#): > > And then finally, it’s all good and well to have that discussion for running or cycling where one can attempt to argue that the advantages will disappear once testosterone is lowered. > > But we also have a subset of sports where the advantage will never disappear. This is particularly true where anthropometry – think stature/height, limb length etc – are crucial for sports performance. Lowering testosterone may reduce hemoglobin, muscle mass, strength, power and cardiovascular capacity, and it may cause fat mass to rise, but it’s not changing the skeleton, and it arguably isn’t undoing a body type and much of the size/bulk created in part by testosterone. > > In some of these sports (contact sports, specifically), there is also a huge welfare issue, and so for that reason, the transgender MTF athlete poses particular concern for sports like boxing, MMA, rugby, AFL, even basketball, netball and handball. > > Quite how sports sort through this issue, I don’t know. Rugby, for instance, will need to be especially vigilant, because this is a situation likely to arise and may create welfare risks to other players. In one sense, this might make it ‘simpler’, because you can ‘discriminate’ (legally) if there are reasonable grounds to, and the protection of all players may be one such reason. > > But then, if I gaze into my crystal ball, a legal challenge will say “Prove that smaller players tackling bigger players are at greater risk of injury”. Because you might think it obvious, but there’s no evidence for this (for example, scrumhalves, the smallest players on the field, don’t have the highest injury risks, and locks, the largest players, don’t have the lowest risk). So again, we see a sound conceptual argument, a good theory, but no hard facts to support it, and we’re back in that position again! > > That’s a hugely complex issue, and does push one further towards caution, which is to say, exclusion, in this debate. I don’t know the way around this. One thing I learned from this blog is that Canada apparently does not have any sports regulations that gate-keep gender. I was skeptical about this so I did some research. It appears to be [true](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/new-policy-allows-canadian-trans-student-athletes-on-teams-consistent-with-gender-identity). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/348 "2019-12-28T03:56:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We have–or, have had–several trans posters on these boards. I don’t know that any are left, and as far as I know, the ones that have left have all left because of the aggressive ignorance of folks around trans issues. One form this aggressive ignorance takes is bizarre hypotheticals that don’t resemble the reality of anyone’s experience. Misogyny has driven women from this board too. I’ve stuck around for a looong time in spite of that and in spite of the racism too. Lost track of how many threads there have been dedicated to black intellectual inferiority and the unattractiveness of black women. But amazingly enough I’m still here, even as the dreaded TERF slur hangs ever so closely over my head as I challenge ideas that I disagree with. Maybe my skin is thicker than most. Or maybe I believe that discussion and debate eradicates the same ignorance that oppresses. You can’t get that if people are afraid to probe subjects freely. I haven’t used linebackers in any of my hypotheticals, but I did evoke Jason Momoa. Why? Because the question we’re discussing is when does it become reasonable for people to perceive someone as a man despite their gender identity? If we can’t get agreement at the masculine extreme (e.g linebackers), then that tells us that we’re unlikely to see eye to eye at any other point. This tack is not unheard in debates, and it’s not done maliciously. But if it’s distracting or hurtful, I won’t do that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/349 "2019-12-28T04:35:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I did state what my position was. My position was "“is there a problem? What is it you think the problem actually is?” Transgender people are already competing with women for athletic scholarships, are allowed to compete for Olympic medals and other honors. Why is that wrong? I don’t think it’s wrong when biological sex differences are taken into account. When they aren’t taken into account (e.g., no requirements for non-HRT) , then I don’t think it’s a fair contest to have biological males playing against females, particularly when strength and speed decide who wins. In some cases (like track and field), I’d argue prolonged HRT still might not even the playing field. > [@](#): > > They are fighting for their lives actually. Emotional appeals like this are ineffective against African American women. > [@](#): > > I didn’t see your question there: I was too busy rolling my eyes at the ridiculous scenario you had invented for me to get outraged about. Its a straightforward question and the more you dodge it, the weaker your position looks to the world. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/350 "2019-12-28T05:07:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Emotional appeals like this are ineffective against African American women. …I’m an indigenous man. My grandad, a member of the Mau, was murdered by New Zealand colonial forces in Samoa. Are you really wanting to play the grievance olympics? Because that is something that none of us are going to win. It wasn’t an appeal to emotion. You really are getting your fallacies mixed up. The statistics for transgender people are **dire**. I’ve cited some. There are many others. The US government are rolling back their rights, they are stacking the courts to make those battles easier to win, they are denying transgender people the right to join the military. Transgender people are more likely to want to kill themselves, they are more likely to actually kill themselves, they are more likely to work as sex-workers on the street, [fatal violence disproportionately affects transgender women of color.](https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019) This isn’t an emotional argument. They are simply the facts. > [@](#): > > Its a straightforward question and the more you dodge it, the weaker your position looks to the world. But I didn’t dodge again. I literally answered your question (once you made that question clear.) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/351 "2019-12-28T05:25:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m an indigenous man. My grandad, a member of the Mau, was murdered by New Zealand colonial forces in Samoa. Are you really wanting to play the grievance olympics? Because that is something that none of us are going to win. Only one of us is making irrelevant emotional appeals. I asked you a straightforward question about how you’d describe a male-presenting stranger and you immediately act like I’m throwing trans folk into an incinerator? Come on now. This kind of response might work on demographic groups who carry around oppressor guilt and somesuch, but this form of emotional manipulation doesn’t work on African American women. I’m just telling you so you can stop doing ineffective things in this debate. That you are Indigenous person is really and truly besides the point. > [@](#): > > it wasn’t an appeal to emotion. You really are getting your fallacies mixed up. The statistics for transgender people are **dire**. I’ve cited some. The statistics don’t have anything to do with the question I posed you about biological importance. > [@](#): > > But I didn’t dodge again. I literally answered your question (once you made that question clear.) No you didn’t. I asked if it was inappropriate to call a unknown male a man and your answer was about what you do. But I’m tired of engaging you on this anymore. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/352 "2019-12-28T05:26:07Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Is there a movement advocating for non-HRT treated transwomen to be able to compete against women in sports? Yes. Rachel McKinnon, a world champion cyclist who is a transwoman, said that: > [@](#): > > “By preventing trans women from competing or requiring them to take medication, you’re denying their human rights.” She’s just one person, but she’s a very prominent person in the areas of sports and trans rights, and I’ve seen others repeat her views that even “asking someone to take medication” is unfair. Current British IOC rules allow transwomen significantly higher testosterone levels than cis women, and only require them to have taken supplements to reduce their testosterone for 12 months prior to competing. In Britain there are transwomen competing in rugby and cricket after growing up as male, and rugby is a particular concern because it is a contact sport where muscle mass and bone density make a huge difference, not just to performance, but to likelihood of injury. The rugby player [Kelly Morgan](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49298550) does admit that ‘transgender women may have an advantage in terms of size and strength.“I do feel guilty, but what can you do?” she says. “I don’t go out to hurt anybody. I just want to play rugby.”’ And I get that, she sounds like a nice person who just wants to play her sport. It’s lovely that her team-mates accept her but I wonder about the teams they compete against - their views don’t seem to have been asked for in any interview I’ve seen. But Kelly does have the advantage of being born and socialised as male - she played for East Wales as a teenager, as a male player, and that opportunity would not have been open to her as a woman. She has experience and training that were open to her growing up as a boy and young man that were not available to her if she’d grown up as a girl and young woman, so it’s not purely about her physiology, though that counts too. Rugby is really violent. And there are non-contact forms of rugby. [This article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/09/02/rugby-rightly-inclusive-sport-research-disproves-safety-risk/) makes a very fair and reasoned argument for restricting transwomen to non-contact rugby until there’s more medical evidence that says anything either way. Rugby referees in amateur leagues have problems with the current regulations because they’re not even allowed to ask for proof that a trans player meets the regulations, and that does seem ripe for abuse. TBH this is one area where quite a few trans people have doubts about allowing trans people to compete, depending on the sport and the regulations. Current regulations do give people who were born male an advantage in most sports. TBH, when men are on average taller, stronger, with greater muscle mass, and have a different bone structure, plus early socialisation that helps encourage sports, it really is odd that quite a lot of people are denying that there are major differences. Pointing out the occasional very tall woman means nothing since some men are also outliers, and there’d be nothing preventing a tall man who was also an outlier in terms of height and strength competing against average women, if he took low levels of hormones for twelve months. When it comes to long term or professional sports, transwomen do not have to deal with monthly menstruation and the problems that causes many women; bleeding and feeling pain for several days a month really shouldn’t be disregarded as a factor in performance - I mean, if a male competitor in a sport had a condition that made him bleed and feel pain for seven days a month he’d probably be considered disabled. And they will never have to take time out of their sporting events due to pregnancy. An unplanned pregnancy for a 21-year-old male rugby player whose partner is pregnant means he might try to arrange games so that he can be with his partner for the birth. For a female rugby player, it means a year or so not playing because the sport is so high-contact. Kelly Morgan is in her thirties and will be competing against women who are in the age range where they have to choose between competing and pregnancy, something she will never have to face as a prospect. Those are biological realities that no amount of gender identity can combat. And there’s a small number of sports (floor-based gymnastics mainly) where transmen might have an advantage against cis-men too, so it goes both ways - there just haven’t been enough transmen trying to compete against cis-men for that to have been regulated yet. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/353 "2019-12-28T05:37:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Only one of us is making irrelevant emotional appeals. …I haven’t made irrelevant emotional appeals. > [@](#): > > I asked you a straightforward question about how you’d describe a male-presenting stranger and you immediately act like I’m throwing trans folk into an incinerator? I literally answered your question. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I used to do this all the time. I do it less now. I use more ambiguous language until I am clear on how a subject would prefer to be referred too. But this honestly is the least important issue on the table. Nobody was outraged when the OP accidentally misgendered someone earlier in the thread. That was the answer to your question. > [@](#): > > Come on now. This kind of response might work on demographic groups who carry around oppressor guilt and somesuch, but this form of emotional manipulation doesn’t work on African American women. And appealing to your “African American womeness” isn’t going to work on this indigenous man. > [@](#): > > I’m just telling you so you can stop doing ineffective things in this debate. That you are Indigenous person is really and truly besides the point. Is it any less of a point than the fact you bought up you are an African American woman? > [@](#): > > The statistics don’t have anything to do with the question I posed you about biological importance. You still haven’t answered my question on that one yet. And the statistics have everything to do with why ludicrous hypotheticals about Jason Momoa’s twin brother do nothing but minimize what it is we are discussing. The stakes are so much higher than this. > [@](#): > > No you didn’t. I absolutely did. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/354 "2019-12-28T06:25:20Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Yes. Rachel McKinnon, a world champion cyclist who is a transwoman, said that: > > She’s just one person, but she’s a very prominent person in the areas of sports and trans rights, and I’ve seen others repeat her views that even “asking someone to take medication” is unfair. …for context here is the entire quote and the original article: > [@Rachel McKinnon](#): > > “All my medical records say female,” she said. "My doctor treats me as a female person, my racing licence says female, but people who oppose my existence still want to think of me as male. > > “There’s a stereotype that men are always stronger than women, so people think there is an unfair advantage. By preventing trans women from competing or requiring them to take medication, you’re denying their human rights.” > > Findings of a study by Sweden’s Karolinska Institute suggest the impact of hormone treatment on the leg strength of women who have transitioned from being male is almost negligible. > **[Trans cyclist Rachel McKinnon defends her right to race in women's competitions](https://news.sky.com/story/trans-cyclist-rachel-mckinnon-defends-her-right-to-race-in-womens-competitions-11838131)** > > Trans athlete McKinnon will race to defend her sprint title at the Masters track cycling championships in Manchester on Saturday. One competitor isn’t a movement, and in context I can see her point. > [@](#): > > Current British IOC rules allow transwomen significantly higher testosterone levels than cis women, and only require them to have taken supplements to reduce their testosterone for 12 months prior to competing. Cite please. > [@](#): > > In Britain there are transwomen competing in rugby and cricket after growing up as male, and rugby is a particular concern because it is a contact sport where muscle mass and bone density make a huge difference, not just to performance, but to likelihood of injury. > > The rugby player [Kelly Morgan](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49298550) does admit that ‘transgender women may have an advantage in terms of size and strength.“I do feel guilty, but what can you do?” she says. “I don’t go out to hurt anybody. I just want to play rugby.”’ And I get that, she sounds like a nice person who just wants to play her sport. It’s lovely that her team-mates accept her but I wonder about the teams they compete against - their views don’t seem to have been asked for in any interview I’ve seen. > > But Kelly does have the advantage of being born and socialised as male - she played for East Wales as a teenager, as a male player, and that opportunity would not have been open to her as a woman. She has experience and training that were open to her growing up as a boy and young man that were not available to her if she’d grown up as a girl and young woman, so it’s not purely about her physiology, though that counts too. Rugby is really violent. > > And there are non-contact forms of rugby. I can’t help but shrug my shoulders at this. I’m a kiwi. I know how violent rugby is. But what is your actual issue here? Some vague hand-waving about “experience” and “what the opponents might think” isn’t really a lot to hang your hat on here. That article was a puff-piece: a few pull-quotes from a few interviews to tell an interesting story about a local player. Just for your interest: that article has been co-opted by a lot of gender critical “think pieces” that make those pull-quotes seem scarier than they actually are. > [@](#): > > [This article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/09/02/rugby-rightly-inclusive-sport-research-disproves-safety-risk/) makes a very fair and reasoned argument for restricting transwomen to non-contact rugby until there’s more medical evidence that says anything either way. That article is paywalled to me so I can’t tell if it makes a fair and reasoned argument or not. > [@](#): > > Rugby referees in amateur leagues have problems with the current regulations because they’re not even allowed to ask for proof that a trans player meets the regulations, and that does seem ripe for abuse. Cite please. > [@](#): > > TBH this is one area where quite a few trans people have doubts about allowing trans people to compete, depending on the sport and the regulations. **Current regulations do give people who were born male an advantage in most sports.** Cite please. > [@](#): > > TBH, when men are on average taller, stronger, with greater muscle mass, and have a different bone structure, plus early socialisation that helps encourage sports, it really is odd that quite a lot of people are denying that there are major differences. Pointing out the occasional very tall woman means nothing since some men are also outliers, and there’d be nothing preventing a tall man who was also an outlier in terms of height and strength competing against average women, if he took low levels of hormones for twelve months. I don’t get this “early socialisation that helps encourage sports” thing. Everyone is encouraged to do sport here. Rugby, netball, soccer, cricket, there is early socialisation that encourages everyone into sport. What significant difference do you think it makes after someone has transitioned? > [@](#): > > When it comes to long term or professional sports, transwomen do not have to deal with monthly menstruation and the problems that causes many women; bleeding and feeling pain for several days a month really shouldn’t be disregarded as a factor in performance - I mean, if a male competitor in a sport had a condition that made him bleed and feel pain for seven days a month he’d probably be considered disabled. And they will never have to take time out of their sporting events due to pregnancy. There are also things that cis-women don’t have to deal with that trans-women have to deal with all the time. > [@](#): > > An unplanned pregnancy for a 21-year-old male rugby player whose partner is pregnant means he might try to arrange games so that he can be with his partner for the birth. For a female rugby player, it means a year or so not playing because the sport is so high-contact. Kelly Morgan is in her thirties and will be competing against women who are in the age range where they have to choose between competing and pregnancy, something she will never have to face as a prospect. Not every female rugby player is going to get pregnant for a whole host of reasons. This isn’t a reason to deny trans-women the right to play sport. > [@](#): > > Those are biological realities that no amount of gender identity can combat. So what? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/355 "2019-12-28T06:29:52Z")
BanquetBear, the stats you throw out are undoubtedly alarming and nobody should ever be killed for their gender. But SO many more cis-women are killed for their gender in every country in the world that it pisses me off when I see those stats that are still lower - usually far, far lower - than for cis-women. Possibly I misread when you said that transpeople are fighting for their lives. They definitely are - depending on where you live, it can almost be fatal. But the same goes for being female. And although it must be shit hiding yourself, for every place it’s hard to be trans, rape and domestic murder rates against women are high too (for countries where stats are reliable - I’d discount countries like Sudan and Saudi Arabia for both metrics). ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/356 "2019-12-28T06:51:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > BanquetBear, the stats you throw out are undoubtedly alarming and nobody should ever be killed for their gender. > > But SO many more cis-women are killed for their gender in every country in the world that it pisses me off when I see those stats that are still lower - usually far, far lower - than for cis-women. …the stats I posted earlier were the likelihood of transgender people to commit suicide and included relative rates to cis-people. Those stats were not still lower - usually far, far lower, than for cis-women. This isn’t just about getting killed for their gender. Its a much bigger topic than that. > [@](#): > > Possibly I misread when you said that transpeople are fighting for their lives. They definitely are - depending on where you live, it can almost be fatal. Yep. > [@](#): > > But the same goes for being female. And although it must be shit hiding yourself, for every place it’s hard to be trans, rape and domestic murder rates against women are high too (for countries where stats are reliable - I’d discount countries like Sudan and Saudi Arabia for both metrics). Trans-women are women. Rape and domestic murder rates for all women are at epidemic levels. Yeah, we need to do something about it. In the real world I am trying to do something about it. But unless those rapes and domestic murders are at the hands of transgender women then I don’t see how it relates to this particular debate. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/357 "2019-12-28T07:49:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …for context here is the entire quote and the original article: > > [Trans cyclist Rachel McKinnon defends her right to race in women's competitions | World News | Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/trans-cyclist-rachel-mckinnon-defends-her-right-to-race-in-womens-competitions-11838131) > > One competitor isn’t a movement, and in context I can see her point. I did give the entire quote. In the context you’ve proposed, it actually looks worse. “Findings of a study by Sweden’s Karolinska Institute suggest the impact of hormone treatment on the leg strength of women who have transitioned from being male is almost negligible.” That makes it sound like hormone treatment doesn’t have the impact people claim it does, like transwomen continue to be stronger. > [@](#): > > Cite please. [Here ya go.](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics) The link says: Under the current IOC guidelines, issued in November 2015, athletes who transition from male to female can compete in the women’s category without requiring surgery to remove their testes provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months. Those guidelines, used by most sports federations to draw up their transgender policies, have proved controversial, given that women’s testosterone levels tend to range between 0.12 and 1.79 nmol/l, while men’s are typically between 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/l. So transwomen can have levels of 10 nanomoles, while most women range between 0.12 and 1.79 nanomoles. That is a large difference. > [@](#): > > I can’t help but shrug my shoulders at this. I’m a kiwi. I know how violent rugby is. But what is your actual issue here? Some vague hand-waving about “experience” and “what the opponents might think” isn’t really a lot to hang your hat on here. That article was a puff-piece: a few pull-quotes from a few interviews to tell an interesting story about a local player. Just for your interest: that article has been co-opted by a lot of gender critical “think pieces” that make those pull-quotes seem scarier than they actually are. I only quoted from pieces that were fairly positive about her playing. My point is what I said - talking about having major experience and training from competing in a major male team as a boy and being socialised for that to be normal is not “vague handwaving.” > [@](#): > > That article is paywalled to me so I can’t tell if it makes a fair and reasoned argument or not. Sorry - I don’t pay for it so didn’t realise it wasn’t free elsewhere, but it was basically very positive about including transwomen in sports and concerned about transpeople being excluded, and also concerned about injuries. The key point was that encouraging non-contact rugby might be a good compromise for amateur sports in the meantime, and I think that’s probably a good idea. > [@](#): > > Cite please. > **[Too strong trans players in women’s rugby are driving referees away](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0)** > > Rugby referees are quitting the women’s amateur game because they fear rules allowing transgender women to play will lead to serious injuries. Referees say they have been warned not to challenge bearded or heavily muscled players appearing for... > [@](#): > > Cite please. The British IOC cites I gave above. The only requirement is some testosterone reduction for 12 months. It disregards the previous twenty years or so of testosterone, bone structure and density, average height compared to women, lots of things. I have seen people say those factors don’t count, so I must assume they think women just aren’t trying hard enough or something. Also, if you had the slightest bit of knowledge about this issue, you wouldn’t need to keep saying “cite please.” You were talking about transwomen in sport, so surely you’ve actually read something about it? > [@](#): > > I don’t get this “early socialisation that helps encourage sports” thing. Everyone is encouraged to do sport here. Rugby, netball, soccer, cricket, there is early socialisation that encourages everyone into sport. What significant difference do you think it makes after someone has transitioned? NZ does seem to be particularly good for encouraging women in sport, but when working towards paid work, it’s still men’s team sports that pay the most, or pay at all. How much do women on national teams earn in rugby in NZ, as opposed to men? And in almost all countries, women are not socialised towards sport in the same way as men are. Please do not ask me for another cite for something that you know is true. > [@](#): > > There are also things that cis-women don’t have to deal with that trans-women have to deal with all the time. I assume we’re still talking medical issues, since I was talking about bleeding for several days a month. Transwomen have to deal with hormones that makes them… Like women, except for periods. Transwomen have to take hormonal medications every day. That’s the reality of life for women taking the contraceptive pill, too. > [@](#): > > Not every female rugby player is going to get pregnant for a whole host of reasons. This isn’t a reason to deny trans-women the right to play sport. Not every female rugby player is going to get pregnant, but it’s not exactly rare, and a hell of lot more female rugby players get pregnant than male rugby players do. We were talking about a team where most of the women are in their late twenties to early thirties, the key time for women to try to get pregnant. Yeah, some of the women will choose not to get pregnant or try for it - there’s never a completely level playing ground - but this is different. I’d say that no male rugby player has ever had to take a year out for pregnancy. I’d also say that none have ever had to sit out for a month or two due to a miscarriage or abortion due to abdominal surgery. And they won’t have to deal with period pains, or spend their teens - the main time athletes start their careers - with a pad and tampon in their athletic wear and worry about bleeding through while being watched by everyone they know. Kelly, who, like I said, does seem like a really lovely person, could have biological children into her fifties and beyond and won’t have to carry them. Maybe she would love to be the one who was pregnant, but her biology doesn’t allow that. If she had an unwise relationship in her early career and got her GF who was also a rugby player pregnant, she (Kelly) could have carried on playing, but the GF would have had to stop playing for a couple of weeks even if she had an abortion as early as possible, due to the blood loss. Biology does matter. > [@](#): > > So what? So there are physical realities that make a difference in sport, which is mostly physical. We might not want those differences to exist, but they do. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/358 "2019-12-28T08:34:56Z")
[quote=“Banquet\_Bear, post:356, topic:845105”] > [@](#): > > Trans-women are women. Rape and domestic murder rates for all women are at epidemic levels. Yeah, we need to do something about it. In the real world I am trying to do something about it. > > But unless those rapes and domestic murders are at the hands of transgender women then I don’t see how it relates to this particular debate. Because women are affected by gender violence more than anyone else. Transwomen are women in many respects, they just got there a different way; for sports I don’t think the current rules are right because the way transwomen became women is different to other women. I also disagree with the dogmatism of the term “transwomen are women” because the world doesn’t work that way and it’s used to shout down people who have any sort of disagreement - even if the person disagreeing is a transwoman (not me, some people I know, please do not go straight to “cite please”). FWIW I’ve been a trans advocate since I was about 17 (24 years ago) and am fully in favour of trans people being treated by their gender in most areas that we come across in daily life, like work, using the pronouns they want (or expecting people to try to use the right pronouns and not getting pissed off if they make a genuine mistake), getting access to surgery and hormonal treatment, wear whatever clothes you like including school uniform, quite a lot of things. I have actually marched in the trans section of London Pride with friends a couple of times (I’m gay). I am not an enemy of transpeople. For crime stats I think it’s useful to separate the stats - partly because otherwise it would be impossible to tell whether transwomen are being targeted more. If crime stats truly treated treated transwomen as women then they’d be a tiny blip in the number of women sexually assaulted and killed. Some transwomen are targeted because they are women but many of them are targeted because they’re trans and for those purposes it’s useful to separate the stats. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/359 "2019-12-28T09:03:00Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I did give the entire quote. > > In the context you’ve proposed, it actually looks worse. “Findings of a study by Sweden’s Karolinska Institute suggest the impact of hormone treatment on the leg strength of women who have transitioned from being male is almost negligible.” > > That makes it sound like hormone treatment doesn’t have the impact people claim it does, like transwomen continue to be stronger. …:: shrug :: > [@](#): > > [Here ya go.](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics) > > The link says: > > Under the current IOC guidelines, issued in November 2015, athletes who transition from male to female can compete in the women’s category without requiring surgery to remove their testes provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months. So not the “current British IOC rules” but the current IOC guidelines. That have been in place for the last four years. What problems have been identified in the last four years using these guidelines? > [@](#): > > Those guidelines, used by most sports federations to draw up their transgender policies, have proved controversial, given that women’s testosterone levels tend to range between 0.12 and 1.79 nmol/l, while men’s are typically between 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/l. > > So transwomen can have levels of 10 nanomoles, while most women range between 0.12 and 1.79 nanomoles. That is a large difference. Can you quantify how large a difference this is? And “most” and “levels tend to range” are two different measures. Are there reasons why the levels tend to range at these levels, and what makes the difference? > [@](#): > > I only quoted from pieces that were fairly positive about her playing. My point is what I said - talking about having major experience and training from competing in a major male team as a boy and being socialised for that to be normal is not “vague handwaving.” It is if you can’t quantify how it makes a difference. It is if you don’t offset that experience and training with the life experiences of a typical transgender woman. > [@](#): > > Sorry - I don’t pay for it so didn’t realise it wasn’t free elsewhere, but it was basically very positive about including transwomen in sports and concerned about transpeople being excluded, and also concerned about injuries. The key point was that encouraging non-contact rugby might be a good compromise for amateur sports in the meantime, and I think that’s probably a good idea. Did the article quantify that opinion at all? Are there more injuries? More people hurt? Is there an objective reason why we should stop doing what we are doing now (letting trans-women play contact sports) to banning them from doing so? > [@](#): > > [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0) Another paywalled article. How many referees have been “driven from the pitch?” Who warned referees not to challenge bearded or heavily muscled players appearing for women’s teams and in what context? (I can read the opening paragraph but nothing beyond that) > [@](#): > > The British IOC cites I gave above. The only requirement is some testosterone reduction for 12 months. It disregards the previous twenty years or so of testosterone, bone structure and density, average height compared to women, lots of things. I have seen people say those factors don’t count, so I must assume they think women just aren’t trying hard enough or something. This isn’t a cite that “current regulations do give people who were born male an advantage in most sports”, assuming you meant, in context, that “people who were born male” are actually “transgender women” who participated in women’s sports. Is that what you meant or did you mean something else? > [@](#): > > Also, if you had the slightest bit of knowledge about this issue, you wouldn’t need to keep saying “cite please.” You were talking about transwomen in sport, so surely you’ve actually read something about it? I’ve been careful to cite statements that I deem to be controversial in this thread because this particular topic is rife with disinformation and propaganda. And your cites kinda bear that out. With all due respect I don’t trust your interpretation of the numbers. Are you an authority on testosterone? I don’t pretend to be an expert here, I’ve never claimed to be an expert, and asking you for a cite to back up your claims doesn’t mean that “I haven’t read anything about the subject.” I did google for “current British IOC rules allow transwomen significantly higher testosterone levels than cis women” but because this had little to do with the current British IOC rules nothing came up. So I tried to do my due diligence. You just got the basic facts wrong in the first place. > [@](#): > > NZ does seem to be particularly good for encouraging women in sport, but when working towards paid work, it’s still men’s team sports that pay the most, or pay at all. How much do women on national teams earn in rugby in NZ, as opposed to men? At the formative stages (that you seem to be talking about) the funding is pretty much even. But at the stage that players are getting paid money trans-women (who can compete at the elite level where you would expect to get paid) would get paid the same amount that women would get paid. > [@](#): > > And in almost all countries, women are not socialised towards sport in the same way as men are. Please do not ask me for another cite for something that you know is true. I don’t know this to be true. So cite? > [@](#): > > I assume we’re still talking medical issues, since I was talking about bleeding for several days a month. Transwomen have to deal with hormones that makes them… Like women, except for periods. > > Transwomen have to take hormonal medications every day. That’s the reality of life for women taking the contraceptive pill, too. Its a shame we don’t have any transgender people left on these forums to provide an alternative view on this. But the reality of life for transwomen are much more than having to take a hormonal medication every day. I haven’t limited this discussion to just “medical issues.” I see no reason why we should. > [@](#): > > Not every female rugby player is going to get pregnant, but it’s not exactly rare, and a hell of lot more female rugby players get pregnant than male rugby players do. We were talking about a team where most of the women are in their late twenties to early thirties, the key time for women to try to get pregnant. Yeah, some of the women will choose not to get pregnant or try for it - there’s never a completely level playing ground - but this is different. How is it different? > [@](#): > > I’d say that no male rugby player has ever had to take a year out for pregnancy. I’d also say that none have ever had to sit out for a month or two due to a miscarriage or abortion due to abdominal surgery. And they won’t have to deal with period pains, or spend their teens - the main time athletes start their careers - with a pad and tampon in their athletic wear and worry about bleeding through while being watched by everyone they know. We aren’t talking about male rugby players though. Transwomen are women. > [@](#): > > Kelly, who, like I said, does seem like a really lovely person, could have biological children into her fifties and beyond and won’t have to carry them. Maybe she would love to be the one who was pregnant, but her biology doesn’t allow that. If she had an unwise relationship in her early career and got her GF who was also a rugby player pregnant, she (Kelly) could have carried on playing, but the GF would have had to stop playing for a couple of weeks even if she had an abortion as early as possible, due to the blood loss. This is just getting a bit creepy now. People have been complaining about me wanting to “police thoughts.” But its the constant policing of women’s bodies that are more worrying and problematic to me. The amount of thought you’ve put into this is icking me out. Just leave her alone already. > [@](#): > > Biology does matter. Except when it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > So there are physical realities that make a difference in sport, which is mostly physical. We might not want those differences to exist, but they do. Of course they exist. How much that bothers you though is entirely over to you. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105/360 "2019-12-28T09:19:04Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Because women are affected by gender violence more than anyone else. …and this is relevant to this topic…how? > [@](#): > > Transwomen are women in many respects, they just got there a different way; for sports I don’t think the current rules are right because the way transwomen became women is different to other women. The current rules differ from country to country, from sport to sport, from code to code. Which “current rules” in specific do you not think are right? > [@](#): > > I also disagree with the dogmatism of the term “transwomen are women” because the world doesn’t work that way and it’s used to shout down people who have any sort of disagreement - even if the person disagreeing is a transwoman (not me, some people I know, please do not go straight to “cite please”). The world “works the way” we try and make it work. It isn’t just dogmatism. You’ve used the term “biological male” and the term “male rugby player” and I don’t have a clue if you are talking about non-transgender biological male rugby players or if you are talking about transgender women. You are needlessly confusing the issue and you aren’t the only one. > [@](#): > > FWIW I’ve been a trans advocate since I was about 17 (24 years ago) and am fully in favour of trans people being treated by their gender in most areas that we come across in daily life, like work, using the pronouns they want (or expecting people to try to use the right pronouns and not getting pissed off if they make a genuine mistake), getting access to surgery and hormonal treatment, wear whatever clothes you like including school uniform, quite a lot of things. I have actually marched in the trans section of London Pride with friends a couple of times (I’m gay). I am not an enemy of transpeople. But you don’t think they should play full-contact rugby. And you spend a lot of time thinking about how much they do or don’t bleed into their athletic wear. And you don’t like the dogmatism of the term “transwomen are women” because “the world doesn’t work that way”. I’m not gonna call you “an enemy of transpeople.” You did walk in the trans section of London Pride with friends a couple of times after all. But can you really call yourself an ally? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jk-rowling-transphobic/845105.md?page=19)