# Is Joe Biden's campaign over before it starts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783 "2019-03-30T21:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/361 "2019-04-22T04:39:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You would do well to review Mueller’s report. > > I would direct you specifically to pages 23 and 45. The Russians were very busy making Bernie look good and Hillary look bad. > > At page 23: By February 2016, Russian instructions to IRA specialists: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary (Clinton) and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them).” > > At page 45: From the GRU: “We think Trump has only a 25% chance of winning against Hillary… so conflict between Bernie and Hillary is interesting.” > > I’m sure there is more. I am still reading the full report. You should, too. Mic drop. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/362 "2019-04-22T04:41:22Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You would do well to review Mueller’s report. > > I would direct you specifically to pages 23 and 45. The Russians were very busy making Bernie look good and Hillary look bad. > > At page 23: By February 2016, Russian instructions to IRA specialists: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary (Clinton) and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them).” > > At page 45: From the GRU: “We think Trump has only a 25% chance of winning against Hillary… so conflict between Bernie and Hillary is interesting.” > > I’m sure there is more. I am still reading the full report. You should, too. What’s out there about the candidates is out. There’s no going back. If you’re implying that I’m a Russian puppet, I can only try to assure you that I’m voting FOR Bernie… not AGAINST other Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/363 "2019-04-22T04:42:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Mic drop. …really? I’m trying to help you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/364 "2019-04-22T04:43:41Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > What’s out there about the candidates is out. There’s no going back. If you’re implying that I’m a Russian puppet, I can only try to assure you that I’m voting FOR Bernie… not AGAINST other Democrats. The only thing I am saying – not implying – is that you are ill informed. Educate yourself. It’s simple, really. If Bernie wins the nomination, vote for Bernie. If Biden wins the nomination, vote for Biden. See how easy this is? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/365 "2019-04-22T04:46:47Z")
This behavior turns people off. You think you’re entitled. I vote for who I want. I’m more than secure with my decision… And the elections a long ways away. You never know what can happen. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/366 "2019-04-22T04:51:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The only thing I am saying – not implying – is that you are ill informed. Educate yourself. > > It’s simple, really. If Bernie wins the nomination, vote for Bernie. If Biden wins the nomination, vote for Biden. > > See how easy this is? Who said I wasn’t doing that? You’ve got to look out for the kids that probably wouldn’t be a enticed vote if it weren’t for Bernie ‘speaking’ to them last election. He broadened the market. Why is it that you think I’m not educated? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/367 "2019-04-22T12:25:07Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Maybe with Romney/Clinton. > > I think you could argue the other two qualities for Bernie. Especially authenticity. And Biden wanted to segregate schools, didn’t he? Maybe you could argue that for Bernie might do okay with Obama-Trump voters, maybe. But there is very little question that Biden would. And cited before, by polling none of the current contenders do as well with Black voters as Biden does, certainly not Sanders. Would it change with a negative barrage? Possibly. > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Things are changing. > > People (especially young people) see Obama as flawed. > > What worked in the 90’ ain’t gonna cut it. > > It’s really ridiculous we don’t have Medicare for all. Things are always changing and always will be and some things stay the same. Obama was never not flawed; no president has not been flawed. Some have flaws bigger than others is all. As for ridiculous …not having “Medicare for all” is not an issue of what sort of presidential leadership we’ve had; it is an issue of what could and could not, can and cannot, get through Congress. You may as well be saying it ridiculous we don’t have flying cars for all. It’s a fine thing to run on and to aim for but anyone who thinks that any of the current crop would deliver it is seriously deluded … and really ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/368 "2019-04-22T12:35:03Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > … You’ve got to look out for the kids that probably wouldn’t be a enticed vote if it weren’t for Bernie ‘speaking’ to them last election. He broadened the market. … I think much more of the younger voter cohort than you do it seems. No, they are not so superficial and they are not voting because some old white guy was “speaking” to them in 2016. They are much smarter than that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/369 "2019-04-22T14:08:17Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The only thing I am saying – not implying – is that you are ill informed. Educate yourself. > > It’s simple, really. If Bernie wins the nomination, vote for Bernie. If Biden wins the nomination, vote for Biden. > > See how easy this is? And discuss issues, dont attack other Dems. Except on actually positions, not made up crap. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/370 "2019-04-22T15:23:58Z")
The flying cars thing is stupid. I live in Western New York and Canadians are afraid of getting sick down here because of the cost of healthcare. It’s really not that hard to conceive of a Medicare for all plan when you look at other places. Bernie is trying for Medicare for all, at least he’s trying. And I think it’s a worthy cause to fight for. The young voters I know, which is a medium sample size, Are disillusioned and skeptical of insiders. To say that you have more faith in them, you’re probably right about that. I even know people that voted for Trump because Bernie was gone. I wish I agreed with you… But some seem more than willing to let things ‘play out’ with Trump. I can’t say that’s a ‘dumb’ idea. It’s playing hardball. They know Democrats will be grudgingly vote for Bernie over Trump if forced to. Not my style… But “dumb”? If you ask me, right now, they hold more of the cards. That’s why, (not out of hostility,) I would advise looking for another to beat Bernster. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/371 "2019-04-22T15:39:34Z")
Another thing. I think many would consider voting for Elizabeth Warren or Tulsi Gabbard. I like Warren a lot. Tulsi isn’t my thing… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/372 "2019-04-22T15:50:27Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > The flying cars thing is stupid. I live in Western New York and Canadians are afraid of getting sick down here because of the cost of healthcare. It’s really not that hard to conceive of a Medicare for all plan when you look at other places. Bernie is trying for Medicare for all, at least he’s trying. And I think it’s a worthy cause to fight for. > > The young voters I know, which is a medium sample size, Are disillusioned and skeptical of insiders. To say that you have more faith in them, you’re probably right about that. I even know people that voted for Trump because Bernie was gone. > > I wish I agreed with you… But some seem more than willing to let things ‘play out’ with Trump. I can’t say that’s a ‘dumb’ idea. It’s playing hardball. They know Democrats will be grudgingly vote for Bernie over Trump if forced to. > > Not my style… But “dumb”? > > If you ask me, right now, they hold more of the cards. > > That’s why, (not out of hostility,) I would advise looking for another to beat Bernster. It is not hard of imagining “Medicare for all” working … it is delusional to think that “trying” has much to do with delivering. Again, as a campaign pitch it is a fine thing … but reality is that we are not going to have a Congress that will pass it. It is like candidate Trump promising a wall that Mexico will pay for. No, “they” really don’t hold more of the cards. You both underestimate their smarts, and overestimate their power. 2016 was not lost because younger voters stayed home more than ever and they were not the bulk of Obama-Trump voters. Sanders is no Messiah. He’ll need to win their votes again against others also aiming to earn them and also expand his appeal. He might do it but right now he has not been the one consistently at the top of the pack. You may want to look at someone other than Bernie to beat Biden. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/373 "2019-04-22T15:58:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is not hard of imagining “Medicare for all” working … it is delusional to think that “trying” has much to do with delivering. Again, as a campaign pitch it is a fine thing … but reality is that we are not going to have a Congress that will pass it. It is like candidate Trump promising a wall that Mexico will pay for. > > No, “they” really don’t hold more of the cards. You both underestimate their smarts, and overestimate their power. 2016 was not lost because younger voters stayed home more than ever and they were not the bulk of Obama-Trump voters. Sanders is no Messiah. He’ll need to win their votes again against others also aiming to earn them and also expand his appeal. He might do it but right now he has not been the one consistently at the top of the pack. > > You may want to look at someone other than Bernie to beat Biden. 🙂 No matter what health care plan that’s brought to the table, people are going to have issue with it. So you might as well try for the one that saves us all money. And treats all people. Look… I am NOT in the mood to debate right now. But I really do disagree with you. It’s nice hearing your POV, and maybe the kids I know aren’t a reflection of kids all over the country. But I’m telling you that, from what I witness and hear, I think Bernie’s the best chance at facing Trump. (Right now) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/374 "2019-04-22T17:08:17Z")
No debate then! Just appreciate that an elephant is not a snake despite the fact that the part near you feels just like one. The trunk is important mind you and it is the part of the elephant that makes the most noise, but it still is not what moves or controls the whole thing. Biden has no chance winning a race of all young voters true. Sanders might win that group and might not. But if he is to be the one to beat Biden he needs to win more than them alone. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/375 "2019-04-23T17:09:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Count me as another who fails to see the “devastating” about his style of politics there. > > His style, chummy, bipartisan, comprising, trying to see the good even in people who are in many ways abhorrent, has gotten things done. It is of course fair to argue that you don’t like all the things it has gotten done. The Sanders style alternative of pure positions, few chums, and no compromises, has few less ideal results to complain about … and nothing of note to tout either. Is it better or worse to have a mixed record of things achieved, or a record of nothing accomplished? > > Which is the more effective style? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that’s quite an excluded middle you’ve set up there. Yes, I believe Biden’s chummy style has in fact corrupted the things that he’s gotten done. It’s hardly worth praising his ability to move the 2005 bankruptcy law through Congress; who knows how many lives would have been better off if it had never been passed? Being chummy with segregationists didn’t do black people any good, either, as the article notes. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/376 "2019-04-23T17:14:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > **Because that’s what you do in a eulogy**. Only assholes say bad things about the man they were asked to eulogize. That’s what you do in a eulogy, sure. But you get to choose whether to give a eulogy. I gave the eulogy at my father’s funeral. I will not do the same for my mother when she passes. We have choices. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/377 "2019-04-23T17:17:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*\*Because when you say anything nice about a man when you are giving condolences, you of course are condoning every bad thing that person ever did, right? \*\* To quote Malcolm Reynolds, “My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.” ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/378 "2019-04-23T19:33:38Z")
When was the last time someone spent almost their entire adult life in DC and then was elected president? LBJ comes close but he was only 56 in 1964. But now people are way more into voting for outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/379 "2019-04-23T19:38:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You would do well to review Mueller’s report. > > I would direct you specifically to pages 23 and 45. The Russians were very busy making Bernie look good and Hillary look bad. > > At page 23: By February 2016, Russian instructions to IRA specialists: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary (Clinton) and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them).” > > At page 45: From the GRU: “We think Trump has only a 25% chance of winning against Hillary… so conflict between Bernie and Hillary is interesting.” > > I’m sure there is more. I am still reading the full report. You should, too. What does Russian interference in the 2016 election have to do with the validity of complaints of inappropriate touch against Joe Biden now? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/380 "2019-04-23T19:41:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And discuss issues, dont attack other Dems. Except on actually positions, not made up crap. The depth of hypocrisy here is hilarious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=20)