# Is Joe Biden's campaign over before it starts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783 "2019-03-30T21:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/61 "2019-03-31T18:12:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Why would a 2016 Trump voter not vote for him in 2020? What did he do or not do that would turn off some of his voters for 2020? > [@DSeid](#): > > Some voted him as a vote for change and were willing to roll the dice. > > Now they’ve seen the roll and many still want change. There is that, and also one should take into consideration that **a very significant number of voters expected that Trump was an even bigger liar** , and that a lot of the promises that he made were lies too and that he would not really do the wall, go against the ACA, not be a racist prick, etc. > **[What many Trump supporters believe about the promised elimination of the ACA](https://healthjournalism.org/blog/2016/12/what-many-trump-supporters-believe-about-the-promised-elimination-of-the-aca/)** > > Many people who gained coverage under the Affordable Care Act voted for Donald Trump, even though he promised to get… > [@](#): > > Many people who gained coverage under the Affordable Care Act voted for Donald Trump, even though he promised to get rid of it and has not been crystal clear about what he would put in its place. > > Sarah Kliff of Vox traveled to Whitley County in Kentucky to find out why. In that county, the uninsured rate dropped by 60 percent (from 25 percent in 2013 to 10 percent now, according to Enroll America). Yet, 82 percent of them voted for Trump. > > It turns out that they felt safe doing that because they didn’t believe Trump actually would take away their Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/62 "2019-03-31T18:17:29Z")
I agree that he could have lost voters by getting rid of the ACA. So that "loss " for him could end up being a winning thing for him at the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/63 "2019-03-31T18:31:23Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I agree that he could have lost voters by getting rid of the ACA. So that "loss " for him could end up being a winning thing for him at the ballot box. Seems that you missed the latest news. He just does not want to be seen a loser. > **[Donald Trump is very committed to taking away your health insurance](https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18282509/trump-obamacare-lawsuit-health-care)** > > Candidate Trump wanted to expand coverage. President Trump wants to slash it. > [@](#): > > During his presidential campaign, Trump told 60 Minutes, “I am going to take care of everybody.” On the campaign trail in 2018, he sounded similar. “We will always protect Americans with preexisting conditions,” he said at an event in Philadelphia just before the midterm elections. > > But in office, Trump has attempted to implement an agenda that does the opposite. He’s backed legislation, regulations, and lawsuits that would make it harder for sick people to get health insurance, allow insurance companies to discriminate against patients with preexisting conditions, and kick millions of Americans off the Medicaid program. > > This week, his Justice Department filed a legal brief arguing that a judge should find Obamacare unconstitutional — a decision that would turn the insurance markets back into the Wild West and eliminate Medicaid coverage for millions of Americans. By at least one estimate, a full repeal could cost 20 million Americans their health care coverage. > [@](#): > > At the time, the Trump administration wasn’t fully endorsing the challengers’ view. It didn’t agree, for example, that the Medicaid expansion — which covers millions of low-income Americans — would need to fall if the mandate fell. Instead, the Trump administration argued that the parts of Obamacare with the strongest policy connections to the mandate (the ban on preexisting conditions, the requirement to offer coverage to all shoppers) would need to be struck down as well. > > What the Trump administration did yesterday goes much further. Now, the government is arguing that the court should find the entirety of Obamacare unconstitutional. This would mean repealing everything from the Medicaid expansion to the provision that allows young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance until they turn 26. > [@](#): > > Americans are listening to the claims Trump makes about health care. They are hearing him say he wants “insurance for everyone.” They listen when he says he has a plan. > > But everything I’ve seen covering the Obamacare repeal debate — from the bills on Capitol Hill to this lawsuit filing— tells me that Trump is not interested in protecting preexisting conditions. There isn’t a plan to create coverage for everybody, and there never will be. Loser as in him not losing his promise to get rid of the ACA, that many people will end up as losers is not a problem for him. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/64 "2019-03-31T19:13:35Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Exactly the thinking that has the dems throwing names around instead of getting together to set a platform, choose a candidate, and get organized for a battle. If we don’t get serious pretty damned soon we are looking at four more years of trump. Calling him names is not the answer any more than it was last time. Anyone who truly believes Warren or Biden or Sanders could win a national election against the incumbent is seriously kidding themselves. I don’t see any hope that the dems are going to wake up any time soon, either. I think a lot of Dems are not coming to grips with how bad a candidate Hillary was. I don’t know if Biden can win. I worry about Warren, too. She is a good white collar crime hawk and played an advisory role in the Obama administration, making her almost uniquely qualified to take credit for the positive economic conditions lately, but she may not be charismatic enough for this race. Have to wait and see. Yes, Dems have to take this very seriously. Trump is so flawed that pointing it out can make the entire conversation about him instead of talking about the platform. But his record is not great once you get past conservative judges. I think people will notice that only the 1℅ are better off under Trump, and that the inhumanity of this administration will extend to more than just immigrants going forward, and that it isn’t liberals in the crosshairs but the middle class and especially the poor. I repeat: Trump sucks and I think a lot of candidates can beat him. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/65 "2019-03-31T19:21:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Blacks turned out for Clinton as well as they did for any other non-Obama nominee. Then the obvious follow-up is that Democrats should not nominate another white candidate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/66 "2019-03-31T20:36:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/30/joe-biden-2020-candidate-1244375](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/30/joe-biden-2020-candidate-1244375) > … > > In the age of #metoo, how much trouble is Joe in? Can he address it head-on with contrition or will this simply add to his woes, which already started with his handling of the Anita Hill hearings? Pure 100% hit pieces because Joe is the leading Dem. And the Kremlin and Trump thanks you for spreading this “whataboutism” Anita Hill hearings…jesusfuckingchrist…:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Dont worry when Uncle Joe falls off the top off the polls, they will give you plenty of hit pieces on the next candidate. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/67 "2019-03-31T20:39:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Then the obvious follow-up is that Democrats should not nominate another white candidate. Only if you think that the _only_ factor that matters is optimizing Black turnout, and that any candidate who happens to be Black will optimize that turnout as well as Obama did. I do not accept either premise. That said my two favorites happen to be candidates of color and I think that such actually could help not only with Black turnout but with some white demographics, especially, but not only, the Obama-Trump voters. Reason is that most white candidates will have to take very strong positions on issues of importance to many Black voters to earn support in the primaries and to demonstrate that they “get” the issues of systemic racism and its impacts, and those strong positions can turn off some voters who feel that it diminishes the importance of the problems they face. A Black candidate is going to be presumed by many Black voters to “get it” by virtue of lived experience and can spend more time and energy reaching out to other demographics without fear of losing Black support in the process. Biden will likely do better than Clinton with both working class whites and with Black turnout, and he might win Obama-Trump voters back. But he won’t reach Obama level Black turnout. I don’t think Booker or Harris would reach that level either for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/68 "2019-03-31T20:40:04Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This is really simple, would you rather have Joe Biden become president or stick with disgraced former president Trump? Unless you want Trump re-elected there is nothing worth discussing here about Biden. Yep, they are spreading hit pieces as Biden is tops in the polls. Odd how this didnt come up when Biden was running for Veep twice. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/69 "2019-03-31T20:43:16Z")
NM again. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/70 "2019-03-31T20:44:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, bullshit. Touching and kissing strangers in such a manner was recognized as inappropriate 40 years ago, and it’s still inappropriate today. The only thing that’s changed is the power of women to call men out on it. They were not strangers. He was at a rally for _her._ Now sure, they were professional friends, not intimate, and sure it was old school, but he apologized. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/71 "2019-03-31T20:47:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I had to stop after just four or five of those clips. Seriously creepy shit going on there. > … Those clips were obviously edited. 😉 The GOp is making up shit about Joe, and you are helping them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/72 "2019-03-31T20:49:53Z")
[quote=“MortSahlFan, post:45, topic:831783”] … Personally, I think Bernie Sanders is the only one who has a chance to beat Trump…/ [QUOTE] As long as Biden is #1 in th epolls, and the GOp knows he is the toughest candidate to beat, you will see this sort of cheap attack. But dont worry, if Bernie gets to #1, you will see him dragged thru the mud also. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/73 "2019-03-31T21:19:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, bullshit. Touching and kissing strangers in such a manner was recognized as inappropriate 40 years ago, and it’s still inappropriate today. The only thing that’s changed is the power of women to call men out on it. “Strangers”? Were she and he “strangers” when this alleged event occurred? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/74 "2019-03-31T21:22:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “Strangers”? Were she and he “strangers” when this alleged event occurred? :dubious: Nope, she even put her arms around him on stage. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/75 "2019-03-31T21:33:42Z")
Not every politically motivated attack is going to be GOP or Russian troll dirty pool **DrDeth**. While Ms. Flores has not announced support for any candidate at this time she endorsed Sanders in 2016 and has been on the board of the Sanders affiliated political action organization Our Revolution. I am not doubting that Ms Flores is recollecting an actual experience but the timing is of bringing up a kiss on the back of her head exactly now needs no GOP or Russian influence to explain. (And requires no organization or collusion with any campaign.) But it is fair game and again, how Biden handles it is a reasonable test for how he might handle other challenges a leader in the polls is bound to have thrown at them. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/76 "2019-03-31T22:26:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not every politically motivated attack is going to be GOP or Russian troll dirty pool **DrDeth**. That’s right. To those whose priority is to save the globe from the corrupt clown who holds the nuclear codes, it’s an urgent matter to look at the vulnerabilities of every potential candidate. Biden has some very severe vulnerabilities—which the GOP will be happy to hold fire on until the moment Joe gets the nomination. Then we are going to hear plenty on these themes among others: [ul] [li]Biden has made three serious attempts at getting the Democratic nomination so far (in 1984, 1988, and 2008) and has been soundly rejected by Democrats each time.[/li] [li]Biden has a very shaky record on matters of import to black voters. He supported segregation on the basis that it promoted “black pride;” he drafted the 1994 crime bill that’s resulted in disproportionate imprisonment of people of color;\* he made that unfortunate remark about Obama being the first “clean” black candidate;\*\* and that’s not all. None of this is helpful toward bringing out the vote.[/li] [li]And yes, the ‘putting his hands on women who haven’t invited it’ thing won’t help either, nor will Biden’s expressions of sadness that he really, _really_ wanted to help Anita Hill but there was NOTHING he could do. He was Chairman of the committee conducting the 1991 hearings. He was in charge. Is his being ineffectual really a good selling point for his candidacy?[/li][/ul] > [@DSeid](#): > > … how Biden handles it is a reasonable test for how he might handle other challenges a leader in the polls is bound to have thrown at them. That’s right. And so far Biden is falling short. His statements released so far have a whiff of ‘I’m sorry if you were offended’ about them, and that is not going to work. - [Joe Biden’s Dicey Past on Racial Issues Resurfaces Amid 2020 Bid - Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-anti-integration-past-resurfaces-considers-2020-presidential-bid-2019-2) \*\* [Biden's description of Obama draws scrutiny - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/77 "2019-03-31T23:03:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, they are spreading hit pieces as Biden is tops in the polls. Odd how this didnt come up when Biden was running for Veep twice. You keep saying this, in multiple threads, but I don’t buy it. For example, I have already seen multiple hit pieces against Tulsi Gabbard, and she is currently tied for dead last. DrDeth, the hit pieces are because there is something to hit. At least, the authors think so. If it is spin or bs, just point out the substance of why. I think dismissing it altogether because “he is tops in the polls” is not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/78 "2019-03-31T23:05:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > While Ms. Flores has not announced support for any candidate at this time she endorsed Sanders in 2016 and has been on the board of the Sanders affiliated political action organization Our Revolution. She was also at a Beto O’Rourke event the day before this interview with her, [according to Jake Tapper](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHbusG3dDrA). (at minute 4:20) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/79 "2019-04-01T01:58:42Z")
If Biden were running for governor or senator in a moderate purpleish state, he would be able to overcome this. But he’s running in a nationwide race in a liberal party that is now quite different than the one in which he competed for the nomination 10-11 years ago. I think Joe’s going to tank like Hillary for many of the same reasons: he has a long career that people can pick apart, and progressives liked him more when he was Obama’s assistant. They’ll like him less now that he’s running for the presidency, which doesn’t mean that they really dislike him; they just aren’t as thrilled with his running for president as he and some pundits are. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/80 "2019-04-01T03:11:22Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … And so far Biden is falling short. … I’d give his response a B, maybe a B-. Not awful but given that this is one of the _obvious_ attacks he was going to have to respond to (heck his being overly and sometimes uncomfortably familiar with his touch, again just look at that old picture of him with Strom Thurman and the looks on everyone else’s faces, have been around for years) the fact that he seems ill-prepared with an A level response is very worrisome for what sort of candidate he’d be. Unless he thought he didn’t need to be prepared until he was actually in the race … which also does not speak well of his quality as a candidate. If he thinks he can wing it with affability, humor, and authenticity alone, without being prepared ahead of time for that which is easy to predict, then maybe he’s not the best choice to go into battle. Or really does not plan to. So while I don’t find his overly familiar touch habit to be disqualifying, his inadequate preparation for that attack is much closer to it. And makes me wonder if he really has to fire in his belly for it. Who benefits most if Biden doesn’t run? Sanders moves into first based on early polling alone but I’d be betting after a bit Booker would pick up lots of his support. He also evokes nostalgia for Obama’s terms and the party loyalists, Black voters, those most concerned about electability, and those who want a more _center_ left candidate who had preferred Biden seem to me to be more likely picked up by him than by Harris or Klobuchar (let alone Sanders, Warren, or O’Rourke). And pretty sure that Booker has already prepared responses to a wide variety of possible attacks that may come his way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=5)