# Is Joe Biden's campaign over before it starts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783 "2019-03-30T21:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/121 "2019-04-01T15:37:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Good thing then that he is not a Socialist. He pretty much is a socialist, he doesn’t deny it. He just doesn’t mean the same thing by it that Fox News does. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 _Bright side?_ 😕 The _last_ thing we want is enthusiasm for the aging socialist. The reason he did so well in 2016 was low-turnout _caucuses_. Caucuses test strength among informed politically-active Democrats. This is a group that will be irrelevant in the election of November 2020. It is uninformed politically-confused “independents” who will choose our next President. Is an intelligent aging socialist who they want? Sure, whatever, you’re clearly the expert on beating Trump. Oh wait, College tuition is important to a lot of those independents and especially to younger voters. Oh wait, he can wrap himself in Green pretty well on Climate Change and related issues. Oh Wait, maybe coming off as the cranky but well informed uncle isn’t the worst thing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/122 "2019-04-01T15:38:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What’s that? A Fact™? Everyone’s entitled to their own Facts™ these days. You can look at what he calls himself or look at his policy proposals. Socialism means the government [seizing the means of production](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism). I may have missed it but I do not recall Sanders advocating that. Sanders is imprecise and using shorthand. Look at his policy proposals and get back to us. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/123 "2019-04-01T15:42:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Right off the Biden statement. Use the same writer? > > Really, that’s what they all say. Especially the most clueless, they are very “sure.” You can Google [Biden creepy](https://www.google.com/search?q=biden+creepy&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidvqS5ja_hAhUNIKwKHdMiAK0Q_AUIDigB&biw=2560&bih=1331) and [Obama creepy](https://www.google.com/search?biw=2560&bih=1331&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=szCiXITRHIrisAXHt7j4CA&q=obama+creepy&oq=obama+creepy&gs_l=img.3...77123.78115..78390...0.0..0.90.375.5......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i7i30j0i7i5i30j0i8i7i30.4Qugu3zV9BE). Biden has loads of pics of him being creepy with women. Obama creepy are weird Photoshop pics. So yeah…I am sure. Obama is sure. Biden’s writer is spinning. And FTR I know I have said racist shit before. I also know I have not inappropriately touched a girl/woman. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/124 "2019-04-01T15:46:08Z")
Okey dokey, Biden’s a pervert, Bernie’s a commie. Klobuchar is mean to her staff, we all know you can judge a person best by how they treat those beneath them. I hear Buttigieg is a Hillary hater, so he’s probably a Bernie Bros. Warren pretended to be native American get into school, sort of like Aunt Becky paying to get her kids in. Beto is a bad father who doesn’t care about his kids and thinks that’s funny. Kamala Harris dissed her father and hates transgender inmates. Anybody else need to step down because they aren’t perfect in your eyes? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/125 "2019-04-01T16:01:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I also know I have not inappropriately touched a girl/woman. When thinking about this I recalled one “maybe” example when I did an inappropriate touch. I was leaving the gay pride parade in Chicago and taking the elevated home (above-ground subway). The cars were packed with people [Japanese style](https://shironano.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/train.jpg). As it happened my upper arm was nested firmly between a buxom woman’s breasts. I looked at her, she looked back and said that ordinarily such a thing would piss her off. She said it with a smile. It was inadvertent and unavoidable and she totally understood it. But what if she had been pissed? Would I be guilty? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/126 "2019-04-01T16:13:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But what if she had been pissed? Would I be guilty? No. You did nothing intentional. Nobody can expect to be untouched in a packed subway car. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/127 "2019-04-01T16:21:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Once again…huh? > > Do you have to work at being oblique? I’ve tried… but here goes again, as simply as I can: those women and girls consented to having photos and video taken, but not to those photos and videos being utilized to attack a politican, and not for you to insist that they were mistreated when you have no idea whether or not they consented, and whether or not they consider Biden a close friend or family. Your assumption that they are fine with you using those images and videos for these political attacks (or even worse, if you don’t care if they’re fine with it), and your assumption that these women and girls did not consent to the actions in those photos and videos, is creepy and gross. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/128 "2019-04-01T16:30:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve tried… but here goes again, as simply as I can: those women and girls consented to having photos and video taken, but not to those photos and videos being utilized to attack a politican, and not for you to insist that they were mistreated when you have no idea whether or not they consented, and whether or not they consider Biden a close friend or family. > > Your assumption that they are fine with you using those images and videos for these political attacks (or even worse, if you don’t care if they’re fine with it), and your assumption that these women and girls did not consent to the actions in those photos and videos, is creepy and gross. Whoa! So you’re saying that even after photos and videos of someone are widely available on the Web, and that person has never protested that availability or tried to restrain it, that person still should have the right to be consulted on each individual use of those photos. That makes no sense, and would be impossible even if it did. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/129 "2019-04-01T16:38:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Whoa! So you’re saying that even after photos and videos of someone are widely available on the Web, and that person has never protested that availability or tried to restrain it, that person still should have the right to be consulted on each individual use of those photos. > > That makes no sense, and would be impossible even if it did. When it comes to images and video purporting to be inappropriate intimate physical contact, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/130 "2019-04-01T16:42:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When it comes to images and video purporting to be inappropriate intimate physical contact, absolutely. Many, if not most or even all, of those pictures were taken in a political context. These are not pics taken at home in a private moment. These are indisputably public pictures. A woman described a particular incident with the former Vice President of the United States. So, other pictures of him, in public, doing what she described are relevant and fair use. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/131 "2019-04-01T16:47:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Many, if not most or even all, of those pictures were taken in a political context. These are not pics taken at home in a private moment. These are indisputably public pictures. Of course they’re public. It’s still wrong to use public pictures of women and girls being touched and utilize them publicly in a way that implies something about their consent to that touch, when they haven’t spoken out or given you permission. That’s what you’re doing - you’re implying that you know something about the consent of those women and girls. And that’s wrong, creepy and gross. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/132 "2019-04-01T16:48:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When it comes to images and video purporting to be inappropriate intimate physical contact, absolutely. They were present for the contact in question. You’d think that if they didn’t want it to be shared on account of that, they’d have said something relatively soon afterwards. Besides, I think this argument relies on a stretch of the word ‘intimate.’ We’re talking G-rated contact here - if someone filmed me putting my hands on my wife in that way in public, nobody would think twice of it. The problem is that Biden’s being inappropriately touchy-feely with people who, by and large, he barely knows. It’s inappropriate _in the absence of any close relationship_, not inappropriate _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/133 "2019-04-01T16:50:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The problem is that Biden’s being inappropriately touchy-feely with people who, by and large, he barely knows. With Flores, yes. Implying this is true about other women who haven’t spoken out is wrong, and it’s creepy and gross because you’re making assumptions about the consent of a stranger (not to mention whether or not they consider Biden a friend or family). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/134 "2019-04-01T16:52:23Z")
On one hand, you have the Republican candidates and their actions. On the other hand, you have people expecting Democrats to be perfect and blameless. Yeah, fuck that nonsense. Especially when it comes from Republicans. If you support Donald Trump, you are unqualified to criticize anyone else for their imperfections. I’m not willing to disqualify every damned Democrat for being imperfect. And I’m no longer willing to listen to Democrats who insist that every Democrat be perfect. Fuck off already (generic you, no one here) with the extremist tone policing of your own damned side. If you’re willing to see horrible people on the other side elected because our person made a few mistakes or isn’t spotless, then you were never on our side. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/135 "2019-04-01T16:55:24Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > On one hand, you have the Republican candidates and their actions. > > On the other hand, you have people expecting Democrats to be perfect and blameless. > > Yeah, fuck that nonsense. Especially when it comes from Republicans. If you support Donald Trump, you are unqualified to criticize anyone else for their imperfections. > I’m not willing to disqualify every damned Democrat for being imperfect. > > And I’m no longer willing to listen to Democrats who insist that every Democrat be perfect. Fuck off already (generic you, no one here) with the extremist tone policing of your own damned side. If you’re willing to see horrible people on the other side elected because our person made a few mistakes or isn’t spotless, then you were never on our side. If this was a Biden one-time oops I am with you. But when we can see it repeated over and over this is not punishing someone for not being perfect. It is punishing someone for being a consistent creep. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/136 "2019-04-01T16:56:27Z")
They should at least blur the faces of the youngest possible victims. It is quite creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/137 "2019-04-01T16:59:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With Flores, yes. Implying this is true about other women who haven’t spoken out is wrong, and it’s creepy and gross because you’re making assumptions about the consent of a stranger (not to mention whether or not they consider Biden a friend or family). Well, Flores made a claim that looks like loads of other pics of Biden doing the same thing. Those pictures are relevant to show this is not a one-time oops from Biden but rather shows a pattern of similar behavior. Maybe you are right and every other female in these pics welcomed the contact and Flores is the one outlier. Would you make a substantial bet on it? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/138 "2019-04-01T17:07:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Maybe you are right and every other female in these pics welcomed the contact and Flores is the one outlier. It just occurred to me…does Biden do this to men? Does he grip their shoulders, whisper in their ear and kiss them on the head? If he did that would be an indication that he only does this as a habit to anyone and would suggest a less creepy motive (even if it is still creepy). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/139 "2019-04-01T17:28:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, Flores made a claim that looks like loads of other pics of Biden doing the same thing. Those pictures are relevant to show this is not a one-time oops from Biden but rather shows a pattern of similar behavior. > > Maybe you are right and every other female in these pics welcomed the contact and Flores is the one outlier. > > Would you make a substantial bet on it? Uggh. It’s just revolting the way your posts in this thread have continuously and blatantly disregarded the personhood and individuality of Stephanie Carter (you didn’t even back off after she explicitly said that Biden was her close friend offering comfort!) and these other women and girls. I haven’t made any other claims aside from criticism of Biden for the conduct Flores alleges and his response. I’ve made no claims at all about any of these women and girls, aside from Flores and Carter, both of whom have made their feelings clear. Using women and girls without their consent is wrong. Your usage of Stephanie Carter and these other women and girls without their consent (and explicitly opposite to the account of Carter, even after you saw her statement) is wrong and, IMO, disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/140 "2019-04-01T17:31:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Uggh. It’s just revolting the way your posts in this thread have continuously and blatantly disregarded the personhood and individuality of Stephanie Carter (you didn’t even back off after she explicitly said that Biden was her close friend offering comfort!) and these other women and girls. I haven’t made any other claims aside from criticism of Biden for the conduct Flores alleges and his response. I’ve made no claims at all about any of these women and girls, aside from Flores and Carter, both of whom have made their feelings clear. > > Using women and girls without their consent is wrong. Your usage of Stephanie Carter and these other women and girls without their consent (and explicitly opposite to the account of Carter, even after you saw her statement) is wrong and, IMO, disgusting. You didn’t answer my question. Also, you ignoring Flores being bothered by Biden’s behavior is disgusting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=8)