# Is Joe Biden's campaign over before it starts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783 "2019-03-30T21:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/161 "2019-04-01T18:46:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Our overall society is revolting in the way women/girls are treated. You may have missed it, but I’ve been hammering this issue on this board for years. And how it’s gotten worse, in some ways, in the last few years. This discussion is an extremely minor, but still real, example of this, IMO. I don’t have any reason to think that you’re a bad person, but by your posts, I think you’ve succumbed, to some small but still real way, to part of the overal societal disregard for the personhood of women and girls. I know that I have in the past as well. That’s not going to stop me from pointing it out when I see it – and this could be an opportunity for you to try and see something that you might be able to improve about yourself. I’m certainly far from perfect, and I hope others will call out inadvertent bigotry in my posts, if they see it. And I’m going to do it for you and everyone else I see that make this sort of mistake, both to highlight how ubiquitous it is, and to help people have the chance to improve themselves. > > It’s always possible that I’m wrong about this and any other issue, and I welcome the opportunity to probe and challenge my own arguments, assumptions, and beliefs. But so far, I’ve been very troubled by your blatant disregard for the personhood and individual full humanity of women like Stephanie Carter, as well as the other women and girls in the videos/images cited. > > This isn’t the end of the world, and it doesn’t make you (or Biden!) a monster, but I’m still going to call it out when and how I see it. You seem to be trying to have it both ways. In your view, regarding Biden, whose account do you accept? Flores or Carter? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/162 "2019-04-01T18:50:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You seem to be trying to have it both ways. > > In your view, regarding Biden, whose account do you accept? Flores or Carter? I accept both accounts, and they don’t conflict in any way at all. I can’t tell what you’re actually trying to respond to in my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/163 "2019-04-01T18:53:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I accept both accounts, and they don’t conflict in any way at all. > > I can’t tell what you’re actually trying to respond to in my posts. So, if you put your hands on women’s shoulders (who are not well known or intimate with you), lean in to whisper in their ear and kiss them on the head that is ok till someone complains? And when someone complains then what happens? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/164 "2019-04-01T18:56:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, if you put your hand on women’s shoulders (who is not well known or intimate with you), lean in to whisper in their ear and kiss them on the head that is ok till someone complains? > > And when someone complains then what happens? This has nothing to do with what I’ve posted. I can’t tell what you’re disputing here that I’ve actually said. Which specific words are you disagreeing with here? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/165 "2019-04-01T19:04:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This has nothing to do with what I’ve posted. I can’t tell what you’re disputing here that I’ve actually said. > > Which specific words are you disagreeing with here? You have been on about how I dare to assume someone I do not know feels about Biden being overly familiar with them. So I am exploring how that plays out in your head because you seem to be trying to have it both ways. Flores is right and Carter is right so Biden should and should not be judged. Which is just weird… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/166 "2019-04-01T19:09:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You have been on about how I dare to assume someone I do not know feels about Biden being overly familiar with them. > > So I am exploring how that plays out in your head because you seem to be trying to have it both ways. Flores is right and Carter is right so Biden should and should not be judged. > > Which is just weird… I don’t understand how it’s “weird” or otherwise difficult to understand that it’s reasonable to criticize Biden for the behavior that Flores describes, but not reasonable to criticize Biden for being affectionate with a close friend (Carter), and not reasonable to characterize in any way the appropriateness of the contact for women and girls who have chosen not to speak out publicly. It’s not okay to violate someone’s personal space (without consent, obviously). It is okay to be affectionate with a close friend if that’s the kind of relationship you have (i.e. that hugs and affection are welcome, and this has been made clear over the course of a long friendship). It’s not okay to presume you have any knowledge about the consent of a bunch of women and girls who have not chosen to speak out about their experiences. What’s “weird” about that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/167 "2019-04-01T19:12:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ok. > > Then just watch these videos posted earlier in this thread: [https://twitter.com/RAMRANTS/status/930065838387863552?s=19](https://twitter.com/RAMRANTS/status/930065838387863552?s=19) > > Maybe they are all ok with it too. Or maybe they know better than to criticize the vice president of the United States who is above their husband/dad in the political hierarchy. Edited vids. Crap. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/168 "2019-04-01T19:13:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > On the bright side, Sanders leads other Dems by double-digits among 18-29 year old Democrats. So maybe getting Biden out of the way is best anyway. It is 31% for Sanders to Biden’s 20%. > [https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/436675-sanders-leads-poll-of-young-democratic-voters-by-double-digits](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/436675-sanders-leads-poll-of-young-democratic-voters-by-double-digits) > > Better link for Poll results: [Bernie Holds Double-Digit Lead Over 2020 Rivals Among Young Democratic Voters: Poll | Common Dreams](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/04/01/bernie-holds-double-digit-lead-over-2020-rivals-among-young-democratic-voters-poll) Then they will just ruin Sanders rep. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/169 "2019-04-01T19:19:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t understand how it’s “weird” or otherwise difficult to understand that it’s reasonable to criticize Biden for the behavior that Flores describes, but not reasonable to criticize Biden for being affectionate with a close friend (Carter)… In your view is Biden’s behavior disqualifying to run for president? Why or why not? (And yeah, it is not legally disqualifying…we know that…asking for your opinion) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/170 "2019-04-01T19:21:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Edited vids. Crap. Oh no! Fake news! (Where have we heard that before?) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/171 "2019-04-01T19:25:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then they will just ruin Sanders rep. What are they going to do? Call him a angry old man, everyone knows that. Call him a socialist, too late, everyone knows that. He not a real Democrat, doubt that would hurt with Independents and Repubs ashamed of Trump. Too Old, well maybe but he is only a year older then Biden ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/172 "2019-04-01T19:26:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In your view is Biden’s behavior disqualifying to run for president? > > Why or why not? > > (And yeah, it is not legally disqualifying…we know that…asking for your opinion) If I were him I would not run, and I will be significantly less likely to support him against the other Democrats going forward. I’d prefer to support a candidate with no credible allegations of unwanted contact, even non-sexual contact, against them. I also want to see if others come forward with any stories about Biden’s behavior, and what they have to say. At this point I hope he does not run. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/173 "2019-04-01T19:55:27Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > What are they going to do? > Call him a angry old man, everyone knows that. > Call him a socialist, too late, everyone knows that. > He not a real Democrat, doubt that would hurt with Independents and Repubs ashamed of Trump. > Too Old, well maybe but he is only a year older then Biden What did they do with Biden? They could come up with a Communist party card, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/174 "2019-04-01T20:01:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What did they do with Biden? > > They could come up with a Communist party card, for example. This one is a whoosh on me. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/175 "2019-04-01T20:09:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I decline to play this revolting game, because _it is wrong to assume how the women/girls felt about that contact_. Oh come on now, I just can’t get on board with this at ALL. I’m a human with functioning eyes and an understanding of how humans show their discomfort with a situation and regardless of what someone might say after the fact I think analyzing their observed reactions to a situation is completely valid. For instance, how about [this sequence](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DenseFlusteredCoqui-small.gif)? He puts his hands on her chest, she moves away and elbows his hand away from her with a look of confusion on her face and damned if he doesn’t move that hand right back where it was. No. That little girl was not happy with the interaction, did not want his hand on her chest and actively resisted it–and he did it again. That’s a determined pushing of clear boundaries and no amount of excuses is ever going to make it okay. And even if that girl, however old she is now, were to come out and say that “no, it’s cool what happened,” I am going to think about the myriad instances where I’ve heard people excuse their abusers and cover for them and insist that everything is JUST FINE OKAY because I also remember those same people breaking down under the stress later on and finally acknowledging the damage done to them. Dissociation is a thing sometimes, and humans have had millions of years of practice in developing and analyzing the nonverbal reactions of other humans–we know what’s going on, but some of us decide we’re going to pretend we don’t, and that’s not okay. _ **I** _ am not okay with what Biden does and a lot of other people are not happy with it either and no number of women coming up and saying “No, it’s okay, it’s cool what happened” is going to make me comfortable with what I had to observe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/176 "2019-04-01T20:15:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This one is a whoosh on me. > > Please explain. The kremlin could fake a a communist party card for bernie. Then back it with real pics of him at rallies, some of his early papers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/177 "2019-04-01T20:31:15Z")
R Kelly’s “victims” often seem to cover up for him. Scare quotes because his teenage co-girlfriends say everything is cool, they really enjoy living with R Kelly and have since they were 16. So there ya go, nothing to see here. Except that Biden isn’t accused of anything in the same ballpark as R Kelly. Do people really, truly believe he is a pedophile? Because of a snapshot of him seeming to look at a little girl’s chest? It reminds me of that photo of Obama looking at that woman’s butt- _maybe_ that photo represented what was really happening, but more likely it was just snapped in an awkward moment. Not trying to make excuses for Biden. Seems like there are more handsy examples every few hours, which isn’t a very flattering news cycle for him to say the least. I just want to say that pedophilia is a little bit too damning of an accusation to throw around casually, on flimsy evidence. If not electing him POTUS is the right thing to do, we can do that without exaggerating his problems. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/178 "2019-04-01T20:35:46Z")
ETA: Interesting that this story is all over CNN today, and not in a way that tries to explain it away. If Biden is going to flame out over this, he does it in a way that shows the Dems and their media allies are not just a bunch of mindless sycophants. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/179 "2019-04-01T20:45:03Z")
I’m not saying he’s a pedophile, I’m saying he either has NO idea he’s crossing boundaries (seems suspect considering how often people have called him on it over several DECADES) or he’s unable or unwilling to control his behavior even after myriad people have told him–and articles have been written, and bits on tv shows have been aired and social media comments have mounted into the thousands over his behavior–and that’s not someone with good judgment and/or ability to control his impulses. I prefer people I’ll vote to have power over me to have good judgment and the ability to control their impulses. I prefer people who understand and respect common boundaries. I prefer people who do not treat women and girls as objects they can handle at will regardless of their preferences. I prefer people with social intelligence who know when they creep other people out. I prefer people who defer to others about what THEY want in terms of being touched and handled and who goddamned well gain consent before getting their grabby little mitts going. Unca Joe has shown over and over he does not have these qualities, not to mention some other little judgment problems and a demonstrated inability/unwillingness to be guided by others into modifying his behavior. So yeah, no thanks to Unca Joe. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783/180 "2019-04-01T20:54:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With Flores, yes. Implying this is true about other women who haven’t spoken out is wrong, and it’s creepy and gross because you’re making assumptions about the consent of a stranger (not to mention whether or not they consider Biden a friend or family). I’m sorry, I thought children didn’t get to consent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joe-bidens-campaign-over-before-it-starts/831783.md?page=10)