Is Joe Biden's campaign over before it starts?

Politics & Elections
341

Nice hit piece, written by either a Sandernista or the kremlin.

Yep:

*Every single Democrat needs to come to terms with the fact that the most sensible plan for getting rid of Donald Trump is to unify behind a Bernie Sanders candidacy…In February 2016, I argued that unless the Democrats nominated Sanders, “a Trump nomination means a Trump presidency.” …This is why I think Elizabeth Warren would not do well against Donald Trump. … If you think that just because Donald Trump is pro “law and order,” he won’t use Kamala Harris’ record of defending prosecutorial misconduct against her, you do not understand Trump. He will have a field day with it. It will totally kill her ability to criticize Trump over criminal justice issues. He will read from the damning statements by federal judges about Harris’ office. And he will be right. He’ll do the same with Joe Biden and segregation, or Cory Booker and Wall Street. *

*Matthew Yglesias of Vox writes:

“Is it really necessary for highly committed socialists to write long individualized takedowns of each non-Bernie candidate? They’re not bad arguments, exactly, but “as a socialist I think you should vote for Bernie because he’s a socialist rather than [candidate] who is not” doesn’t really need thousands of words to get people geared-up.”

I assume he is referring in part to my gigantic dissection of the life and career of Peter Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana. Now, I could give the glib reply (“perhaps instead of deep dives into candidates’ records and writings, we socialists should publish things like ‘Beto O’Rourke Standing On Countertops, Explained.’”) But I take earnest questions seriously. And I’ll admit, spending two-and-a-half days writing over 10,000 words on a longshot presidential candidate did feel a bit like madness at the time I was churning it out. Why bother doing this? Why pay attention to Pete Buttigieg, instead of just saying “as a socialist I think you should vote for Bernie Sanders because he’s a socialist”?*

**So, he has done hits on Biden, Buttigieg, Warren, Harris, Beto & Booker. **

And yet you quote that unprincipled piece of crap who is dedicated to “Bernie or Bust” and thus will help Trump back in office?

342

A major flaw in what appears to be the Sanders campaign strategy of emphasizing hits on competitors (instead of emphasizing Sanders’ own policy proposals) is that it carries an implicit assumption that is unwarranted. The hits on competitors all hinge on ‘Trump will find plenty of material to attack in Candidate _______’ The unwarranted assumption is that Trump will not find plenty of material to attack Bernie Sanders.

The fact that everyone pulling for Trump in 2016 laid off Sanders was NOT due to a dearth of Sanders vulnerabilities. It was due to a recognition that Sanders’ continued presence in the race was, in a practical if unintended sense, helping Trump.

The GOP and its overseas allies have plenty on Bernie Sanders. They’re just holding off using it until Sanders is the nominee.

The attack pieces on Sanders’ competitors serve quite well to remind well-informed voters of this reality.

343

OK, where’s he wrong? He gives lots of facts (or what he claims are facts) in that article. If it’s a ‘hit job’ for real, then it should be easy enough to find the lies and exaggerations.

Because either he’s lying through his teeth about stuff that can be disproved, or his case against Biden is extremely well supported, and Biden has no business being the nominee.

I really don’t give a shit what you call him, and I’ll quote him if I damn well feel like it until someone disproves his facts.

344

It’s embarrassed that we don’t have Medicare For All.

I just saw a hit peace on it today, which is BS.

I can’t copy and paste it, but it was NYTime.

  1. They keep comparing Medicare with private insurance. How about we compare Medicare to the costs? The article later states that Medicare pays $0.87 on the dollar where private pays $1.45.

  2. What about all of the unpaid bill’s, or bills that are settled for far less than $0.87 on the dollar because Joe Smith didnt have ANY insurance?

  3. Most hospitals are for profit…giving HUGE bonuses to high level executives, those wouldn’t factor in if hospitals werent for profit and instead existed solely to care for the people.

345

Also, Bernie has some reach, as evident in his performance at Fox’s town hall.

346

OK, tell you what, let us say you belong to a company and are an executive, working there for a couple decades. One of the other Vice presidents was a real assholes , but recently he has truly tried to change his life, become a better man. You are called upon to speak at his funeral. Do you talk about all his failing and assholishness in the past, or do you talk about his more recent attempts to redeem himself.

Because that is what Joe did. But Biden even mentioned- Thurman’s Failure sn the past:
*Born into an era of essentially unchallenged and unexamined mores of the South, reaching his full maturity in a era of fully challenged and critically exam[in]ed bankrupt mores of his beloved South, and living out his final three decades in a South that had formally rejected its past on race. * That’s flat calling out Strom for being morally bankrupt in the past.

“Strom Thurmond was also a brave man, who in the end made his choice and moved to the good side. I disagreed deeply with Strom on the issue of civil rights and on many other issues, but I watched him change. We became good friends. …"Strom … is a man who was opposed to the poll tax. This is a man who I watched vote for the extension of the Voting Rights Act. This is a man who I watched vote for the Martin Luther King Holiday. …His offices were next door to mine in the Russell Building, or more appropriately mine were next to his. And over the years, I remember seeing a lot change, including the number of African-Americans on his staff and African-Americans who sought his help.”

Because that’s what you do in a eulogy. Only assholes say bad things about the man they were asked to eulogize. Now, Biden did mention Thurmonds asshole past, but rather offhand. And then Biden did what any decent human being would do, he grabbed on to the few decent things Thurmond did in his declining years. Because Biden is a decent human being, something NATHAN J. ROBINSON isnt.

And this is his big attack on Biden? That Biden is a decent human being? And when called upon to eulogize a man, a political opponent, a man who was frankly a racist asshole at times, that you find a few scraps of decency among the cesspool of a evil mans life, and mention those. **Because that’s what people do at eulogies. **

If Biden had come to that **funeral **and listed the horrible, racist things that Thurmon did- then Biden would be a asshole, and not a decent human being.

Call me to eulogize President G W Bush, and I will wax poetic upon the fact two weeks before leaving office, Bush designated nearly 200,000 square miles of the Pacific Ocean as national monuments. I will not talk about the many, many bad things he did-** because you don’t do that at a fucking eulogy. ** And boy howdy- are there a LOT of really bad things the Shrub did. But damme if I can’t say nice things about that 200,000 square miles of the Pacific Ocean now national monuments for 15 minutes, and sure, I , just like Joe, will slip in the odd "bankrupt mores " comment, but hide that in 15 minutes of saying how wonderful those 200 thousand square miles of protected marine area is.
**And that’s Robinsons big attack on Biden. That he is a decent man, who knows you dont trash talk someone at a fucking eulogy. **

Makes me like Biden even more.

347

Oh, and guess what?

*Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) joined other political figures in sending their condolences to the Bush family on Saturday following the death of their patriarch, former President George H.W. Bush.

“President George H.W. Bush served our country honorably,” Sanders tweeted. “He and Barbara will be remembered for their humble and devoted service to the country they loved. Jane and I send our deepest condolences to the entire Bush family.”*

I guess that means Bernie has embraced and agreed with all the thing Pres Bush did while President , eh?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/01/george-hw-bush-legacy-222730
Perhaps the worst act of Bush’s career came at the end of his presidency when he pardoned a bevy of Iran-Contra defendants—including Caspar Weinberger, Robert MacFarlane and Elliott Abrams—to protect himself from further investigation.

By Robinsons logic, Bernie, his Saint Sanders, just accepted and gave his blessing to that act.

**Because when you say anything nice about a man when you are giving condolences, you of course are condoning every bad thing that person ever did, right? **

348

And people wonder why us Democrats dont like Bernie-bros. :frowning:

This kind of crap is why. Hit pieces by some asshole who started his own Bernie or Bust Magazine.

Not just Biden- but Buttigieg, Warren, Harris, Beto & Booker.

349

You seem awfully upset.

Like I said in the other thread, many of the younger people wouldn’t even be voting at all if it weren’t for his enthusiasm. You’re getting mad is NOT going to help. We are aloud to vote for who we want. You don’t intimidate us.

I can’t control Bernie Or Bust people, I don’t blame them for being disillusioned. The media and the corporate Dems are not appealing to them.

You’re allowed to vote for whomever, but I think Biden’s chances against Trump are not nearly as good as Bernies.

350

Count me as another who fails to see the “devastating” about his style of politics there.

His style, chummy, bipartisan, comprising, trying to see the good even in people who are in many ways abhorrent, has gotten things done. It is of course fair to argue that you don’t like all the things it has gotten done. The Sanders style alternative of pure positions, few chums, and no compromises, has few less ideal results to complain about … and nothing of note to tout either. Is it better or worse to have a mixed record of things achieved, or a record of nothing accomplished?

Which is the more effective style?

351

I don’t want someone who’s bipartisan. The Republicans don’t give an inch and we try to bend at their will. they do whatever they want. And we’re lucky to get crumbs of what we asked for.

We are weak.

Also… Please. Bernie has shifted the the goal post, and it’s made these group of candidates better.

352

Another thing… The millennials I know, (and I know quite a few,) really seem to think Biden’s creepy. I know he’s just trying to be affectionate. But there’s a generational thing that’s going on there.

353

Any Democratic president will need some GOP cross over in Congress to get things done. Some bipartisanship is required want it or not. Filibuster proof D Senate majority ain’t gawnna happen.

You are correct about a generational thing which is precisely why Biden’s support is so much unaffected. His support has not been mainly younger voters. Those voters see him as creepy. The voters less young have been more his strength and they do not see him as creepy.

354

Bernie won’t get everything he asks for, but may as well shoot for the stars.

If you’d like to bank on Biden, that’s your call, but if I were you, someone who seems to dislike Bernie, I wouldn’t put my money on Biden.

355

FWIW I’ve been pretty clear that he is not my first choice at this point. The best argument I have for him is as made earlier, that he is likely to do best with the three groups that potentially swing the election in the key Northern Path states: Obama-Trump voters who like his “authenticity” off as it may often be; Romney-Clinton voters, who like his bipartisanship and chummy in the Beltway style; and Black voters with whom he polls very well. But even with that I am not convinced he is the best we have. Not yet sure he isn’t either though!

356

Maybe with Romney/Clinton.

I think you could argue the other two qualities for Bernie. Especially authenticity. And Biden wanted to segregate schools, didn’t he?

357

Things are changing.

People (especially young people) see Obama as flawed.

What worked in the 90’ ain’t gonna cut it.

It’s really ridiculous we don’t have Medicare for all.

358

That’s because Sanders supporters and the Kremlin have painted him as such. I thought the millennials were supposed to be the tech savvy generation?

359

Wat?

Don’t bring Russia into this. Vlad didn’t put his hands all over people.

And the aggression… It really turns people off.

Edit. Maybe not aggression but you’re certainly condescending.

360

You would do well to review Mueller’s report.

I would direct you specifically to pages 23 and 45. The Russians were very busy making Bernie look good and Hillary look bad.

At page 23: By February 2016, Russian instructions to IRA specialists: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary (Clinton) and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them).”

At page 45: From the GRU: “We think Trump has only a 25% chance of winning against Hillary… so conflict between Bernie and Hillary is interesting.”

I’m sure there is more. I am still reading the full report. You should, too.