Your question contained a false premise.
This also contains a false premise. Biden’s disregard for Flores’ personal space was indeed disgusting.
Again, (linked to before and referred to again after that) yes. No Joe!, by Andrew Cockburn
4 th picture in the (very unfavorable) article with a very clearly not consenting Storm Thurman.
The faces of the other pols in reaction tell their own story.
Again I suspect his touchy style … rubs some the wrong way. And connects him well with others. It’s a particular style of politicking that is likely used more selectively than he has used it. But the intent is clearly not to offend or to intrude. I’d bet a solid majority of the time it serves to connect. But even a small minority is significant.
What “false premise”?
Do you think this should stop Biden from running for president?
Are you seriously suggesting this is the same thing as what Flores described?
You said “Maybe you are right and…” and then the false premise. I haven’t characterized, in any way, any touching/affection behavior by Biden aside from the behavior that Flores and Carter have publicly spoken about. I won’t assume anything at all about the consent of women and girls who haven’t publicly spoken about it.
If I were him, I wouldn’t run, and this makes me substantially less likely to support him against the other Democratic candidates.
Quick–what’s Joe looking at? And would you feel comfortable hanging this pic in your living room if that was your daughter?
Just in case anyone thought it was age creeping up on him that made his judgment go wonky.
I honestly do not think Biden is a perv. I think his hands-on, touchy thing is “innocent” inasmuch as, I think, he is just trying to be amiable.
But he doesn’t do it to men and I think this is at the base of #MeToo. Men just do things to women that are sexist. They don’t see it that way but they treat the “little ladies” differently. Biden is an old guy. He is of a different era. In the 1950’s this would be charming behavior. In 2020 not so much.
My question was what you would be willing to make a substantial bet on. No premise at all. A simple binary choice.
I wouldn’t make any such bet, and I find the idea of making a bet about the consent of women and girls who are personally unknown to me to be rather repugnant.
Both were intruding on someone else’s personal space with touch in a way that made the person uncomfortable with apparent lack of awareness that he was causing the other person discomfort.
The difference is that Strom’s discomfort is being made very clear with fist clenched and he still doesn’t notice. Everyone around seems to be noticing! Ms Flores does not describe any reaction she showed that communicated discomfort so much.
Yes he is hands on to men too.
Whether or not it is a valid issue for discussion, what is bothering me the most right now is that Bernie Sanders and the Bernie Bros seem to have flipped into full blown ‘burn down every Democratic candidate to clear the path for Bernie’ mode, including insulting the supporters of other candidates. I don’t like it, I don’t appreciate it and it isn’t going to make me vote for Bernie.
By the way, is he still using the same campaign staff with the Russian ties?
What is “repugnant” about it?
We have a series of photos of Biden getting handsy with women and girls.
You posit it is wrong to assume how the women/girls felt about that contact.
Fine.
So the question is, if you had to bet, which way do you think the majority of women would feel about it?
I decline to play this revolting game, because it is wrong to assume how the women/girls felt about that contact.
Read: “I am cornered and can’t find a way out of what I argued for so I will feign indignance.”
Or maybe you could actually read my words instead of accusing me of lying. Is it really that impossible to you that I might be honestly representing my views?
:smack:
“I have the power to demand that you answer my very specific questions about everything to my exacting requirements. Failure means you lose.”
:rolleyes:
Good luck with that.
He/she does not have to answer but a dodge is a dodge.
…or maybe I’m honestly representing my views. It can be tough to accept that someone is honestly but very strongly disagreeing with you, but doing so can lead to greater understanding. Why not try it?
You are the one who used charged language like “revolting”.
Maybe you are really revolted. If so I submit you are too easily triggered.
Our overall society is revolting in the way women/girls are treated. You may have missed it, but I’ve been hammering this issue on this board for years. And how it’s gotten worse, in some ways, in the last few years. This discussion is an extremely minor, but still real, example of this, IMO. I don’t have any reason to think that you’re a bad person, but by your posts, I think you’ve succumbed, to some small but still real way, to part of the overal societal disregard for the personhood of women and girls. I know that I have in the past as well. That’s not going to stop me from pointing it out when I see it – and this could be an opportunity for you to try and see something that you might be able to improve about yourself. I’m certainly far from perfect, and I hope others will call out inadvertent bigotry in my posts, if they see it. And I’m going to do it for you and everyone else I see that make this sort of mistake, both to highlight how ubiquitous it is, and to help people have the chance to improve themselves.
It’s always possible that I’m wrong about this and any other issue, and I welcome the opportunity to probe and challenge my own arguments, assumptions, and beliefs. But so far, I’ve been very troubled by your blatant disregard for the personhood and individual full humanity of women like Stephanie Carter, as well as the other women and girls in the videos/images cited.
This isn’t the end of the world, and it doesn’t make you (or Biden!) a monster, but I’m still going to call it out when and how I see it.