# Is John McCain psychologically capable and qualified to be President? No. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827 "2008-02-01T05:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/21 "2008-02-01T16:58:34Z")
Hmmm. I got 433,000 hits for [Hillary anger](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hillary+anger&btnG=Search). She must be worse than McCain (371,000 hits). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/22 "2008-02-01T17:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] I recall when he was running against Bush in 2000, I didn’t care for him. He angered too quickly.. like he has a short fuse. [/QUOTE] Not quickly enough, as demonstrated by the fact he didn’t punch Karl Rove in the face. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/23 "2008-02-01T17:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Oh come the fuck on. You honestly think a Google search for “mccain anger” proves anything? [/QUOTE] I’ve taken courses in formal logic. I understand what constitutes a proof. You “come the fuck on” and read the top ten results. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/24 "2008-02-01T17:43:44Z")
You said the symptom is violent anger. None of your googled blogs support this. I would also ask, have you read your [google results](http://www.slate.com/id/61726) ? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/25 "2008-02-01T17:53:43Z")
I’ll say right up front that I think McCain is perfectly capable and competent to be president, but I also think the PTSD diagnosis is pretty much a no-brainer. It’s impossible NOT to have PTSD after 5 1/2 years of imprisonment and torture. I don’t know why anybody would try to deny that McCain has suffered from it. Of course he has. The question is really whether the effects of his past trauma disqualify him from office and I see no reason to believe that they do. A temper doesn’t bother me. A president _needs_ a temper. I also doubt that he would be the _first_ President who has suffered from PTSD. I don’t believe there’s any serious question that he’s suffered from it and the protestations that “diagnosing” such requires credentials and access beyond our armchair abilities is overcooked. Some things are just obvious. It’s not about looking at McCain and trying to find characteristics which fit the DSM-IV but about knowing that people who get tortured for 5 years are going to suffer some stress disorder, period. It doesn’t require an expert to know that. Bush is also a dry drunk, by the way. I don’t care what anyone says. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/26 "2008-02-01T17:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] You said the symptom is violent anger. None of your googled blogs support this. I would also ask, have you read your [google results](http://www.slate.com/id/61726) ? [/QUOTE] Slate takes a pragmatic perspective on the issue; that McCain spins his anger to make himself look good. I agree with this point and disagree with their conclusion. The man is too crazy to be President. Does it bother you that I am willing to allow people to analyze all the evidence for themselves and draw their own conclusions? By the way, I suggest you update your intuitions about what violence is with a dictionary. The man has led a violent life. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/27 "2008-02-01T18:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Bush is also a dry drunk, by the way. I don’t care what anyone says. [/QUOTE] Clinton is a rapist, by the way. I don’t care what anyone else says. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/28 "2008-02-01T18:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Clinton is a rapist, by the way. I don’t care what anyone else says. [/QUOTE] This is not an equivalent comeback. Bush displays demonstrable dry drunk symptoms. Clinton displays no characteristics of a “rapist.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/29 "2008-02-01T18:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=alterego] Slate takes a pragmatic perspective on the issue; that McCain spins his anger to make himself look good. I agree with this point and disagree with their conclusion. The man is too crazy to be President. [/quote] The article illustrates that he is in control of his anger, which allows him to use it to his advantage. > [@alterego](#): > > Does it bother you that I am willing to allow people to analyze all the evidence for themselves and draw their own conclusions? By the way, I suggest you update your intuitions about what violence is with a dictionary. The man has led a violent life. When the PTSD diagnosis speaks of violence, what does it mean? I assumed it meant physical violence, but you’re welcome to disabuse me of this assumption. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/30 "2008-02-01T18:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This is not an equivalent comeback. Bush displays demonstrable dry drunk symptoms. Clinton displays no characteristics of a “rapist.” [/QUOTE] But if I don’t care what anyone else says, why would that matter? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/31 "2008-02-01T18:24:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But if I don’t care what anyone else says, why would that matter? [/QUOTE] Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/32 "2008-02-01T18:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] When the PTSD diagnosis speaks of violence, what does it mean? I assumed it meant physical violence, but you’re welcome to disabuse me of this assumption. [/QUOTE] Nevermind. Reading the DSM, I see that it doesn’t use the word violence. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/33 "2008-02-01T18:34:14Z")
> [@](#): > > McCain has certainly been diagnosed as having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, never mind what his PR folks would have you believe (DSM-IV, fyi, IAPsychologist). You mention that this is “certain”. Could you produce a cite to that effect? The name of the diagnostician, the date of the diagnosis, how much examination was made before diagnosis, treatment prescribed, things like that. And, just to head **Diogenes** off at the pass, “it’s impossible not to be diagnosed” is not a cite, unless you can show some studies that people who were tortured always suffer from PTSD for the rest of their lives, and never recover. Thanks in advance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/34 "2008-02-01T18:36:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This is not an equivalent comeback. Bush displays demonstrable dry drunk symptoms. Clinton displays no characteristics of a “rapist.” [/QUOTE] My understanding 'f “dry drunk” is that it refers to a person that no longer drinks, but has not followed the AA’s 12-Step program. Are you using the term in the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/35 "2008-02-01T18:43:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] My understanding 'f “dry drunk” is that it refers to a person that no longer drinks, but has not followed the AA’s 12-Step program. Are you using the term in the same way? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/36 "2008-02-01T18:46:09Z")
[QUOTE=alterego] I’ve taken courses in formal logic. [/QUOTE] Did you pass? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/37 "2008-02-01T18:56:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] And, just to head **Diogenes** off at the pass, “it’s impossible not to be diagnosed” is not a cite, unless you can show some studies that people who were tortured always suffer from PTSD for the rest of their lives, and never recover. Thanks in advance. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say “it’s impossible not to be diagnosed,” I said it’s impossible not to suffer a stress disorder. Of course it’s possible never to have it diagnosed. I also never said that those who are tortured will never recover. If you look at what I wrote, I never even said that McCain necessarily still suffers from it. I said he HAS suffered from it. It’s an unavoidable effect of prolonged torture. It’s childish to even try to dispute that. Google “torture PTSD” and you’ll find plenty of information about it. Do you think it’s possible to survive 5 1/2 years of torture without suffering psychological damage? Are you kidding me. You’ll notice that I also said that I didn’t think it disqualified McCain. I don’t think it matters. If anything, I think it gives him some insight and empathy about it that no one else in the field is equpipped with. Certainly no one on the right is equipped with it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/38 "2008-02-01T18:59:25Z")
I always understood “dry drunk” to mean a person who displays all the symptoms of an alcoholic personality even if he/she does not drink and never has. (I’ve heard my late mother and my aunts describe their father\* in those terms.) I could be wrong. \*Grampa was Church of Christ – never touched a drop of liquor. But he was very fond of one particular brand of cough syrup, going through several bottles a week . . . Once my Dad looked at the label – 12% alcohol! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/39 "2008-02-01T19:08:55Z")
Interesting. There are a number of online studies regarding PTSD in POWs and torture survivors. It appears they almost all follow a pattern of suffering high PTSD symptoms immediately after the war, but that the symptoms tend to dissipate over time. I would guess that’s exactly the case with McCain. Here’s [one study](http://www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/9/1474) chosen at random. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827/40 "2008-02-01T19:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I always understood “dry drunk” to mean a person who displays all the symptoms of an alcoholic personality even if he/she does not drink and never has. (I’ve heard my late mother and my aunts describe their father\* in those terms.) I could be wrong. \*Grampa was Church of Christ – never touched a drop of liquor. But he was very fond of one particular brand of cough syrup, going through several bottles a week . . . Once my Dad looked at the label – 12% alcohol! [/QUOTE] [Dry Drunk Syndrome](http://www.minnesotarecovery.info/literature/drydrunk.htm) > [@](#): > > OBVIOUS TRAITS Persons experiencing a full-blown DRY DRUNK are, for that period, removed from the world of sobriety; they fail, for whatever reason, to accept the necessary conditions for sober living. Their mental and emotional homes are chaotic, their approach to everyday living is unrealistic, and their behavior, both verbal and physical, is unacceptable. > > This lack of sober realism manifests itself in many ways. > > 1. Grandiosity, put very simply, is an exaggeration of one’s own importance. This can be demonstrated either in terms of one’s strengths or weaknesses. In either case it is blatantly self- seeking or self-serving, putting oneself at the center of attention, from the “big me” who has ask the answers to the “poor me” whose cup of self-pity runneth over and wants all of our attention. > > 2. Judgmentalism is mutually related to grandiosity. It means that the alcoholic is prone to make value judgments - strikingly inappropriate evaluations - usually in terms of “goodness” or “badness”. > > 3. Intolerance leaves no room for delaying the gratification of personal desires. This is accomplished by gross confusion of priorities with the result that a mere whim or passing fancy is mistakenly given more importance than genuine personal needs. > > 4. Impulsivity is the result of intolerance or the lack of ability to delay gratification of personal desires. Impulsivity describes behavior which is heedless of the ultimate consequence for self or others. > > 5. Indecisiveness is related to impulsitivity in the sense that while the latter takes no realistic account of the consequences of the actions, the former precludes effective action altogether. Indecisiveness stems from an unrealistic exaggeration of the negative possibilities of the action ; so one wavers between two or more possible courses of action, more times than not- nothing gets done. > > These conditions, grandiosity, judgmentalism, intolerance ,impulsivity, and indecisiveness taken separately or together can lead to the following: a) Mood swings, which are unrelated to the circumstances to which one tries to link them. Alcoholics zero in on what they want others to think is the cause of the mood swing, when it isn’t that at all. More often than not it is something much deeper than the reason given. Inversely it can also be something totally insignificant with no substance at all (e.g. the sugar is too sweet or the donut is too round). Any excuse will do. b) Unable to demonstrate emotions freely, naturally and without constraint. No emotional spontaneity, no genuine spark. c) Introspection. A very healthy thing to do is difficult if not impossible for the “dry drunk”. It means to look inward to one’s examining each thought and desire, which is linked directly to one’s attitude. d) Detachment. Become aloof, display indifference, don’t care one way or the other, no special likes or dislikes, they withdraw. e) Self-absorption- with a tendency to call attention to whatever they have attained. Narcissism which is quite simply self-love. They become pompous asses. f) The inability to appreciate or enjoy themselves - nothing satisfies. g) Evidence of disorganization, is easily distracted, complains of boredom, and nothing seems to fit. h) A nostalgia sets in, a kind of wistful yearning for something of the past, such as freedom from care associated (falsely) with drinking, bars, drinking associates, and friends; the music, blue lights, and tinkle of the ice cubes in a glass in the neighborhood saloon. i) There can be a kind of romanticism, which includes unrealistic valuations of lifestyles and character traits which can be and usually are objectively dangerous to one’s sobriety. j) Escapism. Fantasizing, daydreaming, and wishful thinking are very much in evidence in the dry drunk syndrome as the individual slips farther and farther from reality. Sound like anybody we know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-john-mccain-psychologically-capable-and-qualified-to-be-president-no/435827.md?page=3)