# Is Joni Mitchell the most influential female musical artist of the late 20th century? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100 "2009-05-20T18:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/1 "2009-05-20T18:55:57Z")
I was listening to several of her songs lat night and [wiki’d her up.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell) Here is what one critic had to say. > [@](#): > > Mitchell’s work is highly respected both by critics and fellow musicians. Rolling Stone magazine called her “one of the greatest songwriters ever,”[3] while Allmusic said, “When the dust settles, Joni Mitchell may stand as the most important and influential female recording artist of the late 20th century.”[4] By the end of the century, Mitchell had a profound influence on artists in genres ranging from R&B to alternative rock to jazz I’ve always liked her music but I had no idea she was considered that much of an artistic heavyweight. Is he right? [Circle Game](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XOV34vsjfg&feature=PlayList&p=B5F562BE4C622762&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3) [Turn me on - I’m a radio](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMT5nMRp_lo&feature=related) [Both Sides Now](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcrEqIpi6sg) ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/2 "2009-05-20T19:01:52Z")
Each time I watch “The Last Waltz” I am reminded just how much I enjoy her music… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/3 "2009-05-20T19:26:13Z")
I adore her. Some days I throw on the Blue album and just get lost in her (and the nostalgia). My parents always said she had a horrible voice, and I suppose in the classic sense, it’s not the kind of sound you’d compare with Sarah Vaughn or Ella Fitzgerald. But what do the geezers know from rock/folk music?😉 The Indigo Girls credit her with inspiring them to become the great duo they are. I think she’ll be remembered years and years down the road as one of the true greats of the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/4 "2009-05-20T19:36:11Z")
Although I’m not a fan, she’s undoubtedly influential. I don’t know if she’s as influential on a purely musical (as opposed to songwriting) level as **Aretha Franklin** ; **Dolly Parton** , also, wrote many of her own (early) material, breaking with country tradition for female artists; and no matter what you think of her music, you’d have to be in denial to overlook **Madonna** ’s cultural impact. It’s an interesting question - lots of factors to consider. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/5 "2009-05-20T19:43:11Z")
Thinking about it, I realize I neglected to mention **The Go-Gos**. While many may scoff, they were the first really viable all-female band that wrote their own songs - there were very few before them ( **Birtha, Fanny, The Runaways** … **The Shaggs** , I guess, though, as in most other ways, they were a special case), and none that came anywhere near them in terms of popularity. I’m sure the critics wouldn’t consider their work on a par with Mitchell’s, but they opened the door to women bands more than any other act I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/6 "2009-05-20T20:02:28Z")
Carole King. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/7 "2009-05-20T20:27:50Z")
I think, _Tapestry_ aside, Carole King is overwhelmingly relevant for her songwriting, not performing. Don’t know whether that changes anything (I have no idea what criteria would be used to determine “most influential”) or not - she’s certainly given enough to music to be a contender. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/8 "2009-05-20T21:10:30Z")
Like it or not, the answer is **Madonna**. Aretha is the best, Joni is a brilliant songwriter and performer - but neither comes close to Madge. I happen to respect Madonna, but don’t put her in nearly the same category as folks like Joni, or Carole King (good call), Dolly, etc. - but her impact and influence since the early 80’s is impossible to deny or ignore. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/9 "2009-05-20T21:19:29Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Like it or not, the answer is **Madonna**. Aretha is the best, Joni is a brilliant songwriter and performer - but neither comes close to Madge. > > I happen to respect Madonna, but don’t put her in nearly the same category as folks like Joni, or Carole King (good call), Dolly, etc. - but her impact and influence since the early 80’s is impossible to deny or ignore. Madonna’s a tremendous celebrity, easily surpassing Joni in that category, and she’s a better performer. But as an “influential female musical artist”? Please. She could stand on a stack of gossip mags, with one of those pointy bras on her head like a yarmulke with a chinstrap, and she wouldn’t come close to Joni’s stature. She’s influenced millions of little girls, like Joan Cusack in WORKING GIRL, to stand in their underwear before a mirror, strutting their lewd stuff and working their hips as they lipsynch into a pretend-mike, but has she influenced music? Not at all. ---
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/10 "2009-05-20T22:06:51Z")
Joni is still my favourite. I think most modern woman singer/songwriters owe her a huge debt. The nearest to her would be Carole King. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/11 "2009-05-21T00:01:51Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Madonna’s a tremendous celebrity, easily surpassing Joni in that category, and she’s a better performer. But as an “influential female musical artist”? Please. She could stand on a stack of gossip mags, with one of those pointy bras on her head like a yarmulke with a chinstrap, and she wouldn’t come close to Joni’s stature. She’s influenced millions of little girls, like Joan Cusack in WORKING GIRL, to stand in their underwear before a mirror, strutting their lewd stuff and working their hips as they lipsynch into a pretend-mike, but has she influenced music? Not at all. Wow - really? No influence? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/12 "2009-05-21T00:09:12Z")
Define ‘most influential’. ‘Most easily identifiable as an influence on current hits’ is different from ‘will be noted as having had a substantial influence on the subsequent development of music’. My tone probably tells you everything I have to say about Joni Mitchell… ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/13 "2009-05-21T00:49:12Z")
While Madonna certainly wins the “most successful,” “most entertaining,” and maybe a dozen other awards, in order to make the case that Madonna is more musically influential than Mitchell, you have to be able to point to a number of successful artists who’s work seems at least partially derived from her. Most female musicians I can think of sound more like Mitchell than Madonna. The folksy singer-songwriter-guitarist act seems much more pervasive to me these days than Madonna’s over the top showmanship. Probably because Madonna’s act is much more difficult to pull off. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/14 "2009-05-21T01:03:27Z")
Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera all certainly took a big old page out of Madonna’s book. I also see her influence on Pink, Katie Perry, Fergie, Spice Girls, Pussycat Dolls. Maybe you have just grown to have more folksy tastes. Which is totally OK, considering that some of those folks I listed make me long for the days of Madonna. I came in here to say Madonna, and I’m sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/15 "2009-05-21T01:13:13Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera all certainly took a big old page out of Madonna’s book. I also see her influence on Pink, Katie Perry, Fergie, Spice Girls, Pussycat Dolls. Musically? Or just in the broader cultural sense of getting their T’n’A in the papers a lot? That’s where Madonna’s real talent lies, in figuring out that the press will cover you if you flash your butt at them often enough, preferably in fishnet stockings (and little else). What this has to do wth music, I couldn’t say. When your first listed disciple is Britney Spears, I’ve got to think that “music” is the last thing you’re trying to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/16 "2009-05-21T01:18:38Z")
Whatever that noise is, I don’t think we’d be hearing it if this weren’t a post-Madonna era. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/17 "2009-05-21T01:20:18Z")
I agree. Madonna has had a big influence - on female performers who get by on their looks and showmanship. There is nothing remotely musical about the legion of breast-flashing divas who have been inspired by Madonna’s style. Katy Perry? Pink? Fergie? This isn’t music; it’s pure glitz and tawdriness devoid of any genuine talent. Joni Mitchell has had a far greater influence on female artists. There are real actual female artists who are musically talented and have skill at singing, instrumentals and writing songs. Aimee Mann, Alanis Morissette, Liz Phair, Ani DiFranco, Fiona Apple, Feist (originally of Broken Social Scene) these are just a few of the female musicians who are actually TALENTED who are all influenced by Joni Mitchell - there are hundreds more who are more obscure. Madonna’s only “influence” has been inspiring women to act like attention-seeking whores on stage, not real musicians. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/18 "2009-05-21T01:22:41Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Musically? Or just in the broader cultural sense of getting their T’n’A in the papers a lot? That’s where Madonna’s real talent lies, in figuring out that the press will cover you if you flash your butt at them often enough, preferably in fishnet stockings (and little else). What this has to do wth music, I couldn’t say. When your first listed disciple is Britney Spears, I’ve got to think that “music” is the last thing you’re trying to discuss. Britney Spears does make music, and it is awfully similar in style to Madonna’s. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/19 "2009-05-21T01:25:30Z")
I was surprised to hear her do _Someday My Prince Will Come_ with Herbie Hancock. One of those sweet surprises on the radio. From my youth I had thought her to be subversive and sexy, 🙂 but that was beautiful art. Sorry, I’m not qualified to answer the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100/20 "2009-05-21T02:49:43Z")
Karen Carpenter. No other female singer in the 2nd half of the 20th century can hold a candle to her in terms of pure vocal talen. Annie Haslam, the lead singer of Renaissance, comes close, but Karen is the queen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-joni-mitchell-the-most-influential-female-musical-artist-of-the-late-20th-century/497100.md?page=2)