# Is Julius Caesar's bloodline traceable to present day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725 "2010-06-11T00:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/121 "2010-08-20T22:51:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > This says to me that it’s impossible for mtDNA Eve to be pre-sapiens. > > I think you’re reading too much into the remark. He’s mainly saying that mtDNA Eve didn’t coincide exactly with the first female sapiens, and making the assumption that the origin of sapiens was earlier. In principle, this doesn’t have to be true. In fact, there are species that share genetic variants that predate the separation of the two species. > > The polar bear diverged from the brown bear about 150,000 years ago. It is certainly possible that the “polar bear eve” was a brown bear and not a polar bear. Not to get into a debate, but he went out of his way to state very strongly that mtDNA Eve wasn’t and couldn’t be older than the oldest modern human. Maybe there is more context to what he said and that was not quoted, but the quote, as given, is unambiguous in its claim. Anyway, the point being that the quote, as written, is not correct. Your polar bear analogy is a good example. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/122 "2010-08-21T03:07:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > … she lived 200,000 years ago, which corresponds approximately with the origin of modern humans. She could only have been pre-sapiens if you disbelieve their analysis. The fuzziness of the species boundary may make the issue moot, but if you pretend there’s a crisp distinction between sapiens and pre-sapiens, and that they were interbreeding, it seems conceivable that, if only by chance, the common uterine ancestor was pre-sapiens. Odds of that would increase, perhaps, if the society were matrilocal. From another article linked to by a previously posted URL, I find: > [@](#): > > Previous studies have shown that while human populations had been quite small prior to the Late Stone Age, perhaps numbering fewer than 2,000 around 70,000 years ago, the expansion after this time led to the occupation of many previously uninhabited areas, including the world beyond Africa. This surprised me, and might suggest that Mitochondrial Eve was pre-sapiens indeed! If sapiens, passing through the 2000-individual bottleneck would make the 200,000 year ago date unlikely. Instead, might this small band of sapiens have expanded, mating with indigenous matrilocal pre-sapiens women in other parts of Africa? Probably unlikely. And probably refuted by the _details_ of these recent papers which, unfortunately, seem to all be pay-per-view. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/123 "2010-08-21T03:51:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t follow. “Polar bear Eve” must have had multiple independent lines of female descent from her, right? Otherwise she wouldn’t be Eve; one of her descendants would have been. But if PBE was a brown bear, that means that those multiple lines of descent independently went through the changes that made them polar. > > I realize that I’m oversimplifying, here, since female-line descent is not the same thing as descent in general, but it still seems like this should hold. The mitochondrial genome is only a tiny part of the total genome. These genes mostly control intracellular processes. The genes that control the morphological characters that differentiate brown bears and polar bears are in the nuclear genome. And the nuclear genome can undergo changes completely independently of the mitochondrial genome. The original population of polar bears (if we designate some specific point when we consider them polar bears instead of brown bears) would have had a variety of mtDNA variants. If only one of the variants present at that time left descendant lineages that exist in the present day, then Polar Bear Eve was a polar bear. If more than one variant present then left still-existing descendants, then these diverged before the population became polar bears, so that Polar Bear Eve would have been a brown bear. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not to get into a debate, but he went out of his way to state very strongly that mtDNA Eve wasn’t and couldn’t be older than the oldest modern human. Maybe there is more context to what he said and that was not quoted, but the quote, as given, is unambiguous in its claim. I don’t read it that way. It seems to me that he is more commenting on what he thinks actually occurred in this instance, rather than as a statement of general principles. > [@](#): > > Anyway, the point being that the quote, as written, is not correct. Your polar bear analogy is a good example. Right. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/124 "2010-08-21T16:10:54Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Technically, you are _many_ of his descendants, which is why there aren’t a sextillion people. This little post finally made it all make sense to me. Thanks, Sage Rat. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/125 "2010-08-21T16:23:46Z")
> [@](#): > > The mitochondrial genome is only a tiny part of the total genome. These genes mostly control intracellular processes. The genes that control the morphological characters that differentiate brown bears and polar bears are in the nuclear genome. And the nuclear genome can undergo changes completely independently of the mitochondrial genome. Sorry if I was unclear… I wasn’t referring to the mitochondrial genome itself, but to the portion of the nuclear genome that gets passed down from mother to daughter (and yes, I know that it’s not always the same portion in every generation, but in any given generation it’s still half the genome). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/126 "2010-08-21T16:50:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Sorry if I was unclear… I wasn’t referring to the mitochondrial genome itself, but to the portion of the nuclear genome that gets passed down from mother to daughter (and yes, I know that it’s not always the same portion in every generation, but in any given generation it’s still half the genome). The mtDNA genome is passed vertically from mother to daughter, without interchange between lineages, so these lineages remain separate. The differences that accumulate in the mtDNA lineages are entirely due to the different mutations (often “neutral,” with no actual effect) that take place in each lineage. In contrast, each chromosome is inherited separately, and there is extensive crossing over of genetic material between each chromosome in a pair (one from each parent) during meiosis (except the X). So there is extensive horizontal exchange of genetic material in each generation. Therefore the nuclear genome represents a scrambling of genetic material potentially including all of your ancestors, male or female, in a particular generation. Twenty generations back, your mtDNA is descended only one individual, but your nuclear genome is descended from up to a million individuals (ignoring pedigree collapse and random loss of particular markers). The mutations or other changes that resulted in the differences between polar bears and brown bears could easily had spread throughout the ancestral polar bear population through selection (or genetic drift when the population was small) while the mtDNA lineages remained distinct. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/127 "2010-08-22T02:53:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The mtDNA genome is passed vertically from mother to daughter, without interchange between lineages… Very minor nit: [mtDNA transmission from male sperm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_mtDNA_transmission) does happen, perhaps nearly 2% in sheeps, though much less in humans. ---
**Author:** ![jstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/da6949/32.png) [@jstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jstrong)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/128 "2012-01-27T00:18:13Z")
I have been chasing my wifes pedigree chart through Charlemagne and on to Gaius Julius Ceaser, wife Aurelia Cotta or Aurelia (May 21, 120 BC – July 31, 54 BC so the lines do still exist ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/129 "2012-01-27T00:33:15Z")
> [@jstrong](#): > > I have been chasing my wifes pedigree chart through Charlemagne and on to Gaius Julius Ceaser, wife Aurelia Cotta or Aurelia (May 21, 120 BC – July 31, 54 BC so the lines do still exist As I think was pointed out earlier in thread, Gaius Julius Caesar didn’t have any children with Aurelia. He had one legitimate child, a daughter, who married Pompey the Great and died in childbirth. The child also didn’t survive. In terms of illegiitimate children, Cleopatra’s son Ptolemy XV (Caesarion) was reputed to be Caesar’s, but that’s still disputed. Nevertheless, he was killed at the age of 17 on the order of Augustus and didn’t have any children. So, it’s unlikely that your wife is descended from Gaius Julius Caesar. It’s possible that she’s gotten hold of a spurious genealogy. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/130 "2012-01-27T00:40:16Z")
> [@jstrong](#): > > I have been chasing my wifes pedigree chart through Charlemagne and on to Gaius Julius Ceaser, wife Aurelia Cotta or Aurelia (May 21, 120 BC – July 31, 54 BC so the lines do still exist Wow. Here it’s a big deal if you’re a Daughter of the [American] Revolution, w/ lineage at least till 1776. Your wife is way beyond a Daughter of the [Carolingian] Revolution. My genealogy documentation peters out three generations. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/131 "2012-01-27T00:57:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …What’s remarkable about Genghis is that 8% of the population of that part of the world is descended from him _in the purely male line_. That is to say, if you start with anyone in central Asia, and look at their father, and then their father’s father, and then his father, and so on, 8% of the time you’ll end up with Genghis. When you trace my male line, you eventually get to a farmer in the mid 19th century US Midwest (think “Little House on the Prairie” life). Nobody seems to know where his parents were from - for all we know he could have been a foundling. ---
**Author:** ![e72751](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@e72751](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/e72751)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/132 "2012-03-24T11:19:45Z")
Mark Anthony was supposedly related to Julius Caesar, and his ancestors include a few Roman emperors, and monarchs of various kingdoms. I’m sure if somebody had the time to do a lot of clicking on wikipedia, they could find some people who have descent from Mark Anthony…although it would be very difficult to be 100% sure of parentage through each generation 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/133 "2012-03-24T13:42:56Z")
> [@e72751](#): > > Mark Anthony was supposedly related to Julius Caesar, and his ancestors include a few Roman emperors, and monarchs of various kingdoms. I’m sure if somebody had the time to do a lot of clicking on wikipedia, they could find some people who have descent from Mark Anthony…although it would be very difficult to be 100% sure of parentage through each generation 😉 . Antony’s mother was Ceaser’s cousin. It is one of the main reasons that Antony joined Ceasers staff in Gaul. Antonys children by Cleopatra married into Libiyan royalty. Its very possible that Gaddaffi was descended from him. Or the dude who set himself on fire in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![wilburnthegreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/839c29/32.png) [@wilburnthegreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wilburnthegreat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/134 "2012-03-29T11:55:31Z")
if ceasers blood died out it would have died out with agustus romulus in 480 ad ---
**Author:** ![Pugwash101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4491bb/32.png) [@Pugwash101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pugwash101)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/135 "2012-10-10T23:40:16Z")
I am directly decended from Julius Caesar… My family have been doing research into genealogy and have found that Julius is my 92nd Great Grandfather 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/136 "2012-10-11T00:40:56Z")
> [@Pugwash101](#): > > I am directly decended from Julius Caesar… My family have been doing research into genealogy and have found that Julius is my 92nd Great Grandfather 😃 Did you read the prior research that shows that all of Julius Caesar’s biological descendents died out? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/137 "2012-10-12T15:26:49Z")
As mentioned, Julius Caesar’s direct line seems to have been quickly extinguished, but there are certainly descendants of the original Caesar cognomen alive today. For example, Marc Antony’s mother was Julia Caesonia, a (relatively distant) cousin of Julius Caesar, and many people living today can claim descent from Mark Antony, as shown below. “Can claim” is not the same as “Can prove” and any proof would startle the many experts who seem convinced that no _Descent from Antiquity_ has ever been demonstrated. The line I show below is just one of many alleged lines, but in each case the steps through the “Dark Ages” don’t seem to have satisfactory proof. Nevertheless, even though any specific line may not meet a proof standard, it can be asserted with confidence that there are some _unprovable but valid_ lines from Mark Antony to most of the present crowned heads of Europe! Most of the following links were copied from [a few](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Anthony) relatively [reliable](http://genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00140301&tree=LEO) genealogical sites. 1. Marc Antony, Triumvir of Rome, d. 30 BC - m. Antonia (his cousin) 1. Antonia - m. Pythodorus, King of Tralles 1. Pythodorida of Tralles - m. Polemon I, King of Pontus 1. Antonia Tryphaena - m. Cotys II, King of Thrace 1. Gepaepyris of Thrace - m. Aspurgis, King of Bosphorus 1. Cotys I, King of Bosphorus 2. Rhescuporis I, King of Bosphorus 3. Sauromates I, King of Bosphorus 4. Cotys II, King of Bosphorus 5. Rhoemetalces, King of Bosphorus, d. 153 6. Eupator, King of Bosphorus 7. Sauromates II, King of Bosphorus 8. Cotys III, King of Bosphorus 9. Ininthimeus, King of Bosphorus 10. Rhescuporis V, King of Bosphorus 11. Teiranes, King of Bosphorus 12. Theothorses, King of Bosphorus 13. Nana of Bosphorus, Queen of Iberia d. 363 - m. Saint Meribane III of Iberia 1. Rev I of Iberia 2. Tridates I of Iberia 3. daughter - m. Aspacures III of Iberia 1. Mithridates IV, King of Iberia 2. Artchil I, King of Iberia 3. Mithridates V, King of Iberia - m. Sagdoukht of Albania 1. Wachtang I, King of Iberia - m. Princess of Parthia 1. Dachi, King of Iberia 2. Bakur II, King of Iberia 3. son 4. Parsman VI, King of Iberia 5. daughter - m. Smbat IV, Governor of Armenia 1. Varaz Tirots II Bagratuni 2. Smbat V, Governor of Armenia, d. 711 - m. daughter of Manuel Arsacid 1. Vasak Bagratuni 2. Ashot ‘the Blind’, Constable of Armenia 3. Smbat VII, Constable of Armenia - m. daughter of Samuel II Mamikonian 1. Ashot ‘the Carniverous’ Prince of Armenia 2. Hripsime Bagatrid - m. Hamazasp II Ardzouni, Prince of Vaspurakan 1. Ashot-Abulabas I, Prince of Vaspurakan (d. 874) 2. Grigor Derenik Ardzouni, Prince of Vaspurakan 3. Khach’il Gagik II, King of Vaspurakan - m. Michke 1. Abusahl Hamazasp III, King of Vaspurakan - m. Gaday 1. Derenik Ardzouni 2. Khachi’k ‘the Deaf’ (d. 1042) 3. Hasan Ardzouni 4. Abdul’gharib Ardzouni, Governor of Tarsus 5. daughter - m. Oshin I, Lord of Lampron 1. Hethum II, Prince of Lampron 2. Sempad, Lord of Barba’ron 3. Vacaghk de Barba’ron, Lord of Lamas 4. Constantine, Regent of Armenia 5. Stephanie de Barba’ron - m. Constantine ‘the Thagadir’, Prince of Lampron 1. Hethum IV, Lord of Lampron (d. 1250) 2. Alice de Lampron - m. Balian Ibelin 1. Guy Ibelin, Senechal of Cyprus - m. Isabeau Ibelin 1. Alice Ibelin - m. Hughes IV de Lusignan, King of Cyprus and Jerusalem 1. Jacques, King of Cyprus and Armenia - m. Helvis von Braunschweig 1. Janus, King of Cyprus and Armenia (d. 1432) - m. Charlotte de Bourbon 1. Anne de Lusignan - m. Louis, Duke of Savoy 1. Amadeo IX `the Happy’ Duke of Savoy (d. 1472) - m. daughter of King of France 1. Anne of Savoy - m. King of Naples 1. Charlotte of Aragon - m. Guy, Count of Laval 1. Anne de Montfort - m. Francois, Viscount of Thouars 1. Louis de la Tremouille, Duke of Thouars (d. 1577) m. Jeanne de Montmorency Louis is the ancestor of many living European nobles, including King Juan Carlos and (through his mother) William Heir to the throne of Britain. For example: 1. Claude de la Tremouille - m. Charlotte van Nassau 1. Charlotte de la Tremouille - m. James Stanley, Earl of Derby 1. Amelia Stanley - m. John Murray, Marquess of Atholl 1. John Murray, Duke of Atholl - m. Catherine Douglas-Hamilton 1. Anna Susan Murray - m. William Gordon, Earl of Aberdeen 1. Catherine Gordon - m. Cosmo-George Gordon, Duke of Gordon 1. Alexander, Duke of Gordon - m. Jane Maxwell 1. Georgiana Gordon - m. John Russell, Duke of Bedford 1. Louisa Jane Russell - m. James Hamilton, Duke of Abercorn 1. James Hamilton, Duke of Abercorn - m. Mary Anne Curzon-Howe 1. James A.E. Hamilton, Duke of Abercorn - m. Rosalind Bingham 1. Cynthia Hamilton - m. Albert E.J. Spencer, Earl Spencer 1. Edward J. Spencer, Earl Spencer - m. Francis Ruth Roche 1. Diana Spencer - m. Charles Prince of Wales 1. William Windsor, Heir to U.K. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/138 "2012-10-12T20:58:19Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Did you read the prior research that shows that all of Julius Caesar’s biological descendents died out? He’s probably talking about Caesars zombie who has risen not just once but twice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Luckett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@Johnny\_Luckett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Luckett)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/139 "2013-02-03T06:19:43Z")
My cousin (a professor) did a family genealogy, thus presenting a document that indicated we’re related to Julius Caesar through our German heritage? It seems that he (Julius) was adapted? If this is so, I would be (of course) very proud to be mixed with the same bloodline as he. - Johnny Luckett ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/140 "2013-02-03T06:32:13Z")
He adapted to lots of things, but he was the scion of an old family who claimed decent from Venus, so it’s unlikely that he was adopted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725.md?page=8)