# Is Julius Caesar's bloodline traceable to present day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725 "2010-06-11T00:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/161 "2015-10-14T16:14:28Z")
The fact that two people were married to each other does not necessarily imply that the fatherhood of any child is by blood. Adultery and illegitimacy have always been rife. Illustrated by the credible but unprovable adage that every person in Italy is descended from at least one pope, none of whom were “married”… ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/162 "2015-10-14T19:14:31Z")
An ancient thread … > [@](#): > > Two Germans share the longest proven family tree in the world. > > The men, Manfred Huchthausen, a 58-year-old teacher, and Uwe Lange, a 48-year-old surveyor, had known each other from living in the same village, about half a mile apart from each other. > > But they never knew they were related through a 3,000-year-old shared ancestor. > > They only recently found out they are both true descendants of Bronze Age cave-dwellers who lived in the area three millenniums ago. > > Thanks to a DNA test on well-preserved Bronze Age bones found in the Lichtenstein cave in the foothills of the Harz Mountains in Germany’s Lower Saxony, the men can now claim to have the longest family tree in the world. > **[Two Germans Share World's Longest Family Tree](https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5386347)** > > Through DNA two Germans discovered they're related through 3,000-yr-old cavemen. > [@](#): > > Briton Is Kin of Stone Age ‘Cheddar Man’ > Science: DNA test shows history teacher is direct descendant of 9,000-year-old skeleton. > March 09, 1997|WILLIAM D. MONTALBANO | TIMES STAFF WRITER > LONDON — After he was killed by a blow to the face about 9,000 years ago, the 23-year-old hunter was laid to rest in a limestone cave in what is now southwestern England. > > Now, say scientists astonishingly bridging 90 centuries and 300 generations, they have found a direct descendant of the Stone Age man. > > He lives half a mile from the burial site and teaches history. > > “I’ve been in the cave a few times, but I never realized it was home,” 42-year-old Adrian Targett told The Times on Saturday, still good-naturedly coming to terms with astonishment–and an unexpected instant of fame. > **[Briton Is Kin of Stone Age 'Cheddar Man'](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-09-mn-36565-story.html)** > > Science: DNA test shows history teacher is direct descendant of 9,000-year-old skeleton. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/163 "2015-10-14T19:43:29Z")
> [@mcdbull](#): > > his father → Pasgen ap Urien, King of Gwyr > his father →Urien ap Cynfarch, Brenin Rhegid > his father → Nyfain verch Brychan This is so ridiculously implausible that it makes me doubt the whole thing. “Gwyr” is the Welsh for Gower, a peninsula in South Wales. Brychan is the eponymous saintly founder of Breconshire, not too far away. Rheged, on the other hand, is way the hell up on the Scottish border. Urien is fairly well known in the Arthurian mythos, though he was a historical figure. His genealogy, though, it deeply suspect. It doesn’t take much digging to tear it apart. [link](http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id62.html.) about some of the possible errors in this part of the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/164 "2015-10-15T12:40:40Z")
> [@mcdbull](#): > > It seems records exist at least from the site [Geni.com](http://Geni.com) > You > → Wayne Irvin McDermott > your father → Jessie Adeline McDermott > his mother → Mary Jane Rush > her mother → Susannah Bond > her mother → Joseph Bond > her father→ Ann Bond > his mother → Sarah Bowater Mills > her mother → Sarah C. Beals-Underwood > her mother → Thomas Bowater > her father → John Bowater, Esq., of Coventry > his father→ Richard Bowater > his father → John Bowater > his father → Kathryn Bowater > his mother → Katherine Popham > her mother → Joan Popham > her mother →Sir Edward Stradling > her father → Janet Stradling > his mother → Catrin Mathew > her mother → \*Efa verch Ieuan > her mother → _Elsbeth verch Thomas > her mother →_Jonet Ferch Ifor > her mother → \*Catrin Ferch Hopkin > her mother → \*?Gwenllian Verch Gruffydd > her mother → Rhys Foel Goch > her father → Rhys Goch Ap Richard > his father →Richard ap Einion > his father → Einion ap Collwyn > his father → Collwyn ap Tangno > his father → Tangno ap Cadfael > his father → Cadfael ap Lludd > his father →Lludd ap Llew > his father → Llew ap Llyminod > his father → Llyminod “Angel” ap Pasgen > his father → Pasgen ap Urien, King of Gwyr > his father →Urien ap Cynfarch, Brenin Rhegid > his father → Nyfain verch Brychan > his mother → Prawst verch Tudwal > her mother → Gratianna of Galloway > her mother →Magnus Maximus, Western Roman Emperor > her father → Eucherius > his father → Honorius > his father → Maximianus Constans > his father →Valerius Constantinus Dardanus > his father → Flavius Titus Eutropius > his father → Gordiana Balba > his mother → Maecia Faustina Antonia Gordiana > her mother →Fabia Orestilla > her mother → Silviana > her mother → Aurelia Fadilla > her mother → Annia Galeria Faustina Major, Roman Empress > her mother → Rupilia Faustina > her mother →Lucius Scribonius Libo Rupilius Frugi Bonus > her father → Marcus Licinius Crassus Frugi, Consul 64 > his father → Marcus Licinius Crassus Frugi, Consul 27 > his father→ Fausta Fausta Cornelia > his mother → Faustus Cornelius Cornelius > her father → Faustus Cornelius Cornelius > his father →Lucius Cornelius Sulla Cornelius, Dictator of the Roman Republic > his father… and on back into time… > > Now what would this mean for a person in our modern times? Science might want to study the effects of long-term inbreeding over successive generations, wealth patterns, longevity as compared to general population? What happens to leadership families after the decline of leadership? Wealth and health patterns? Population movement over time? It’s all interesting. > [@jtur88](#): > > The fact that two people were married to each other does not necessarily imply that the fatherhood of any child is by blood. Adultery and illegitimacy have always been rife. > > Illustrated by the credible but unprovable adage that every person in Italy is descended from at least one pope, none of whom were “married”… This. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/165 "2015-10-15T14:00:13Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > An ancient thread … > [Briton Is Kin of Stone Age 'Cheddar Man'](http://articles.latimes.com/1997-03-09/news/mn-36565_1_cheddar-man) This is brilliant. But I think the article is a little off when it comes to the facts, no? They tested mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down unchanged through the maternal line - it doesn’t come from the father. So Targett could be a descendant of Cheddar Man’s sister, or his maternal aunt, or his maternal great-aunt…but the one thing we know for sure is that (barring incest) he’s \*not \*a direct descendant of Cheddar Man. All of Cheddar Man’s children would have the mtDNA of their mother(s), not of Cheddar Man. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/166 "2015-10-15T21:57:50Z")
Any time you see an ancient Briton lineage to classical times, ignore it. They are all at best myth, at worst some modern bozo just making stuff up. Remember, Geoffrey of Monmouth loved compiling these old myths which included descent from the Trojans, of course. Not just kings, mind you. The whole population. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/167 "2015-10-16T06:09:23Z")
Frankly, even without the rest of it, the claim that Magnus Maximum, the Western Roman Emperor was _anyone’s_ mother would surprise most historians. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/168 "2015-10-16T07:37:11Z")
> [@mcdbull](#): > > It seems records exist at least from the site [Geni.com](http://Geni.com) Geni is full of user created content, and some people are not particularly critical of their sources. On [ancestry.com](http://ancestry.com) I’ve seen people adding half a dozen extra children to a family by using the census record of a couple with similar/the same names in addition to the correct record. And just because something is published doesn’t mean it’s accurate either. I have a printed book showing how I’m decended from Yngve Frey, king of Sweden, otherways known as the god Frey, but that relies on flawed research way before it starts taking mythology and hagiography as fact. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/169 "2015-10-16T09:05:43Z")
Plus, I am suspicious of any genealogical table which claims that the Emperor Magnus Maximus was a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/170 "2015-10-16T13:28:49Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The fact that two people were married to each other does not necessarily imply that the fatherhood of any child is by blood. Adultery and illegitimacy have always been rife. > > Illustrated by the credible but unprovable adage that every person in Italy is descended from at least one pope, none of whom were “married”… The rate of false paternity is like 2%, last I saw, which means after 35 generations, there’s a more than 50% chance that the genealogy is false. Of course, that’s probably less true of royal families, where adultery was traditionally considered treason and punished by death. I would imagine that makes the rate of false paternity quite a bit lower. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/171 "2015-10-16T14:46:06Z")
> [@robby](#): > > No cite for Genghis Khan in particular, but if you go far enough back in time, it is a mathematical certainty that any person living at that moment in time is either an ancestor of everyone alive today, or has no living descendants–with no exceptions. A person who can count everyone alive today as one of his/her descendants is called a “common ancestor.” The common ancestor who lived most recently is called the [“most recent common ancestor”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor) (MRCA) > > What’s surprising is how recent the MRCA lived. For all humans alive today, the MRCA likely lived sometime between the sixth millennium BC to the first or second millennium BC. (ETA: if these estimates are correct, it makes it unlikely that Genghis Khan is a common ancestor of all humans alive today. He may be a common ancestor of all Central Asian people, but probably not everyone on the planet.) > > If you consider subgroups of all humans alive today, such as Western Europeans, the MRCA of all Western Europeans might have been alive as recently as 1000 AD. > > If this estimate is correct, it is unsurprising that a huge percentage of English people were descended from Edward III. Indeed, it would not be surprising if **all** English people alive today (with English ancestry) are descended from Edward III. In mine and my spouse’s case it’s Edward I (she’s descended from one daughter, I from another). The genealogical firm in Canterbury, Kent (a highly reputable one) joked that we shouldn’t get too excited, it would be truly remarkable to find an English man or woman who _wasn’t_ descended from one of the early monarchs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/172 "2015-10-16T15:22:52Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The rate of false paternity is like 2%, last I saw, which means after 35 generations, there’s a more than 50% chance that the genealogy is false. Conveniently, 35 generations ago, the number of your ancestors without pedigree collapse exceeds the population of the continent your ancestors came from, and possibly of the world itself, so chances are good you’re descended from that ancestor anyway, provided he has living descendants. ---
**Author:** ![caeserblood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@caeserblood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caeserblood)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/173 "2016-05-31T12:33:19Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Of course for the average mortal I would never expect to be able to follow a genealogy that far back. But for someone whose lineage was considered as important as Caesar’s, one would think they would have made some effort to keep tracking it. > > So are the modern-day descendants of Julius Caesar (if any exist) known? And if not, when did they lose track of them? During the fall of Rome? Who was the last known descendant? Yes the true line of the Caesars still exists, the line is well known to about 750 AD When Charlemagne Married into my mothers side by concubine, and on my fathers side by Empress Fastrada Holy Roman Empire, Carolingian. I am also directly related to every Pepin every Caesar and beyond to bout 350 BC. BY DNA. so My father on both side are Charlemagne! The line comes from (Martin) who is related to my 34th great grand father (Theuringbert Wormsgau) whose father was Charlemagne. Our line is the last known line with 7 people in the dna circle? ---
**Author:** ![caeserblood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@caeserblood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caeserblood)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/174 "2016-05-31T12:38:57Z")
Not only am I related to every Caesar on both sides of my family, I am also related to almost every king, Queen, baron of consort who ever lived. I am the most royal bloodline in America! my genealogy site, [Home](https://aprilsworld.com/Records/index.html) from Caesar to Quakers in America! ---
**Author:** ![caeserblood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@caeserblood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caeserblood)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/175 "2016-05-31T12:42:17Z")
Its funny that people would think a famous blood line could run out, when Of course the best records of marriage were that of the Romans. Pretty sure they invented the census. any way their is no doubt, I am related, as well as a few others who come from royal bloodlines on the FITZ, worm, Beauchamp, side of queen Elizabeth II ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/176 "2016-05-31T12:46:31Z")
Everyone of European ancestry is descended from Charlemagne, as well as from most other notable European kings and queens. Nobody at all is descended from Gaius Julius Caesar, who left no descendants past the first generation. So part of your claims are false, and the other part are trivial. ---
**Author:** ![caeserblood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@caeserblood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caeserblood)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/177 "2016-05-31T13:32:17Z")
Just discovered a new ancestor, He too is related to Caesar later on, But at this point in time they are the are the Jewish community in Babylon. This is almost cooler than being a Caesar. This is a tribe of Jews that through my family married into french Rome, at the time my grandfathers ran it. The french Pepin is my grandfather also, these are not 2nd cousin 14 removed, these ancestors are my grandparents only. And and on my fathers side only, even though I have eve more royalty on my mothers side to EU royal family. like Elizabeth II. any way here’s a link to the story on the lost Jews of my family! Now found again. My guy was the it says leader of the exile, and that’s this [URL="[Exilarch - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exilarch) 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/178 "2016-05-31T13:36:52Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Geni is full of user created content, and some people are not particularly critical of their sources. On [ancestry.com](http://ancestry.com) I’ve seen people adding half a dozen extra children to a family by using the census record of a couple with similar/the same names in addition to the correct record. And just because something is published doesn’t mean it’s accurate either. I have a printed book showing how I’m decended from Yngve Frey, king of Sweden, otherways known as the god Frey, but that relies on flawed research way before it starts taking mythology and hagiography as fact. I found quite a bit of good information at Ancestry. Mostly linked to the grandmother who helped raise me & the Indiana town of her birth. A few generations back, her people were pioneers in that little corner of the state. Going back further, things get fuzzier. Generally, the lines come from Ulster, Pennsylvania, Kentucky (briefly!) to Indiana. But there are lots of similar names & the more prosperous folks have more documentation; the farther back you go, the more questionable are the links. One GG?mother had the maiden name of “Calvert”–obviously, she _must_ be one of the aristocratic, Catholic Calverts of Maryland! Except she lived & died in the northern part of Ireland. Nope… _Most_ of my folks are Popish bogstompers who arrived more recently. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/179 "2016-05-31T13:51:15Z")
> [@caeserblood](#): > > Its funny that people would think a famous blood line could run out, when Of course the best records of marriage were that of the Romans. Pretty sure they invented the census. any way their is no doubt, I am related, as well as a few others who come from royal bloodlines on the FITZ, worm, Beauchamp, side of queen Elizabeth II It doesn’t matter how good the records are, your bloodline runs out if you have no descendants. But the records from Roman times were not that good, and mostly don’t survive anyway. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725/180 "2016-05-31T14:48:36Z")
> [@caeserblood](#): > > Just discovered a new ancestor, He too is related to Caesar later on, But at this point in time they are the are the Jewish community in Babylon. This is almost cooler than being a Caesar. This is a tribe of Jews that through my family married into french Rome, at the time my grandfathers ran it. The french Pepin is my grandfather also, these are not 2nd cousin 14 removed, these ancestors are my grandparents only. And and on my fathers side only, even though I have eve more royalty on my mothers side to EU royal family. like Elizabeth II. any way here’s a link to the story on the lost Jews of my family! > Now found again. My guy was the it says leader of the exile, and that’s this “[Exilarch - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exilarch)” 🆒 You should try reading through this whole thread, **caeserblood**. To reiterate what has been said repeatedly in this thread, this alleged “new ancestor” of yours whom you’ve supposedly discovered to have lived during the time of the Babylonian exile, is almost certainly either the **direct ancestor** (not a distant cousin) of the vast majority of people reading this thread, and indeed, the direct ancestor of the vast majority of **all** people living on Earth today, **OR** …the ancestor of nobody, because all of that person’s descendants died out sometime in the past. Take your pick. To paraphrase **Chronos** from earlier today, your claims are either false or trivial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-julius-caesars-bloodline-traceable-to-present-day/542725.md?page=10)