# Is "jumbo shrimp" an oxymoron ?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 30, 2000, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631 "2000-03-30T08:58:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@AGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AGuy)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/41 "2013-05-03T18:46:51Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#):
>
> American English is itself an oxymoron. “Jumbo Prawn” is not.
The thing about “jumbo shrimp” – calling small people “shrimp” was inspired by the name for the shellfish, not the other way around. [Etymology of "shrimp" by etymonline](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shrimp)
A prawn, on the other hand, is “a marine crustacean which resembles a large shrimp.” [Oxford Languages | The Home of Language Data](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/prawn)
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/42 "2013-05-03T18:56:19Z")
[Actual use of “giant dwarf”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0355.html). Identified as an oxymoron, no less.
And “bittersweet” isn’t an oxymoron, but “bittersour” is. Or at least, it would be, if anyone ever actually used that word, which they don’t.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/43 "2013-05-03T19:10:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> [Actual use of “giant dwarf”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0355.html). Identified as an oxymoron, no less.
>
> And “bittersweet” isn’t an oxymoron, but “bittersour” is. Or at least, it would be, if anyone ever actually used that word, which they don’t.
Why would “bittersour” be more of an oxymoron than “bittersweet.” If anything, they seem to be more related, as a lot of people confuse “bitter” tastes with “sour” tastes.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/44 "2013-05-03T21:50:21Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#):
>
> American English is itself an oxymoron. “Jumbo Prawn” is not.
Wal, podnuh, y’all write Amurrican right well fer a furriner, ‘ceptin’ fer your tendenc to put an excess U in color, honor, humor, throw excess letters on the ends of program, catalog, etc., misspell and mispronounce the metallic component of bauxite, etc. Or was that comment supposed to be an example of that other oxymoron, “British wit”? 😃
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/45 "2013-05-03T21:57:10Z")
Also let me point out the Pratchett character Capt. Carrot Ironfoundersson,
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/46 "2013-05-04T02:19:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **Reality Chuck** :…But it’s not contradictory in the slightest. “Large shellfish” is not a oxymoron, so “jumbo shrimp” – which means exactly the same thing.
But we’re not saying that “jumbo shellfish” is an oxymoron. And yes, prawn and shrimp mean the same thing in one context. But in at least the US, “shrimp” also means “small.” “Prawn” doesn’t mean “small” that I am aware of. _Jumbo shrimp_ is an oxymoron – a contradiction in terms. “Prawn” and “shrimp” are two different words that sometimes mean the same thing. And shellfish is more comprehensive.
Most of the lists that I have reviewed on the internet are a mixture of a few oxymorons, seldom heard oxymorons, and non-oxymorons. But the oxymoron that I like best is common – at least in the Southern United States: _pretty ugly_. We use “pretty” instead of the words “very” or “really” which is a common usage. But when it is combined with a word meaning the opposite of one of the meanings of pretty, it becomes an oxymoron.
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### Author:  [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/47 "2013-05-04T04:46:40Z")
“Good morning.”
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/48 "2013-05-04T04:56:12Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#):
>
> _Good grief_! Another _living dead_ thread!
But “living dead” is an oxym–
… Oh, you little minx!
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/49 "2013-05-04T21:01:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Quoth **pulykamell** :
>
> Why would “bittersour” be more of an oxymoron than “bittersweet.” If anything, they seem to be more related, as a lot of people confuse “bitter” tastes with “sour” tastes.
I don’t know why they’re often confused, but “sour” is the taste of acids, and “bitter” is the taste of bases. A food of any pH can contain sugar or salt, but a food cannot be simultaneously basic and acidic.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/50 "2013-05-04T21:16:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> I don’t know why they’re often confused, but “sour” is the taste of acids, and “bitter” is the taste of bases. A food of any pH can contain sugar or salt, but a food cannot be simultaneously basic and acidic.
Are you sure “bitter” is only related to pH? I’ve certainly had foods and drinks that were bitter and sour at the same time. Like chew some grapefruit with a bit of pith. You get sour and bitter, but I suppose you can chalk that up to two separate substances. Mix some wormwood with orange juice, and you get sweet, sour, and bitter all together, too.
According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Bitterness)
> [@](#):
>
> Research has shown that TAS2Rs (taste receptors, type 2, also known as T2Rs) such as TAS2R38 are responsible for the human ability to taste bitter substances.[62] They are identified not only by their ability to taste certain bitter ligands, but also by the morphology of the receptor itself (surface bound, monomeric).[63]
The fact that there are supertasters who taste bitterness in certain compounds others don’t suggests to me that it isn’t primarily about the pH of a substance.
Or how about coffee? Coffee is acidic, but its flavor isn’t usually described as sour, but bitter (and I would agree that it is bitter as opposed to sour.)
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/51 "2013-05-04T22:11:41Z")
I’m surprised nobody mentioned [‘Swiss Cheese’](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0660210/quotes?item=qt0200210).
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### Author:  [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/52 "2013-05-05T09:19:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> Are you sure “bitter” is only related to pH? I’ve certainly had foods and drinks that were bitter and sour at the same time. Like chew some grapefruit with a bit of pith. You get sour and bitter, but I suppose you can chalk that up to two separate substances. Mix some wormwood with orange juice, and you get sweet, sour, and bitter all together, too.
>
> According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Bitterness)
>
> The fact that there are supertasters who taste bitterness in certain compounds others don’t suggests to me that it isn’t primarily about the pH of a substance.
>
> Or how about coffee? Coffee is acidic, but its flavor isn’t usually described as sour, but bitter (and I would agree that it is bitter as opposed to sour.)
You are correct that there is more to sour tastes than just pH. Perceived sourness is modulated by both the pH of a solution and the identities of its constituents. [Here’s a link to a 20-year-old article about it.](http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/4/563.abstract) I don’t see any reason at all why something couldn’t be both bitter and sour all at once.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/53 "2013-05-06T03:32:08Z")
I’m sure there is more to sour and bitter than just pH (heck, it’s biology; everything in bio is messy and complicated), but that’s the bulk of it. And while it might be possible to contrive a food that would be both sour and bitter, it’d be a lot harder than any other combination of the fundamental tastes.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/54 "2013-05-06T04:02:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> I don’t know why they’re often confused, but “sour” is the taste of acids, and “bitter” is the taste of bases.
Cite that bitterness is only due to the presence of bases? That’s never been my understanding. While basic substances may be bitter, I don’t think the sensation of bitterness is limited to them. According to Wiki,
> [@](#):
>
> Research has shown that TAS2Rs (taste receptors, type 2, also known as T2Rs) such as TAS2R38 coupled to the G protein gustducin are responsible for the human ability to taste bitter substances.[30] They are identified not only by their ability to taste for certain “bitter” ligands, but also by the morphology of the receptor itself (surface bound, monomeric).[31] The TAS2R family in humans is thought to comprise about 25 different taste receptors, some of which can recognize a wide variety of bitter-tasting compounds.[32]
With 25 different receptors, I think something more complex than sensitivity to bases is going on here.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/55 "2013-05-06T04:04:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> I’m sure there is more to sour and bitter than just pH (heck, it’s biology; everything in bio is messy and complicated), but that’s the bulk of it.
I honestly don’t think that’s “the bulk of it.” I’ll second the request for a cite. Most of the typical substances I think of as bitter (coffee, unsweetened chocolate, broccoli, citrus fruit pith, etc.) I don’t think are basic. Coffee and chocolate are definitely acidic, at the very least.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/56 "2013-05-06T04:20:14Z")
Or just look at beer. Beers almost always finish around a 4-ish pH, even the most bitter of IPAs or Imperial IPAs.
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### Author:  [@AGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AGuy)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/57 "2013-05-06T08:10:53Z")
Yeah, the chemicals that cause bitterness in beer are known as “alpha acids”, even: [Alpha acid - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_acid)
Bitter flavor is definitely not constrained to basic chemicals, though there does seem to be a tendency towards that. Bitterness is really more of an indicator of toxicity than anything ([http://www.jneurosci.org/content/33/1/201](http://www.jneurosci.org/content/33/1/201)). We’re not supposed to enjoy bitter flavors – they’re supposed to warn us that we’re eating something potentially harmful, but a lot of people apparently learn to appreciate them (or fool themselves into it, anyway).
The scientist quoted in this article says that “bitter and sweet are in opposition in the brain,” however: [Taste perception of bitter food is gene dependent: Study](http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Taste-perception-of-bitter-food-is-gene-dependent-Study) . To me, it seems like any of the other flavors probably help to mask bitterness a bit, although bitterness takes away from the intensity of other flavors.
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### Author:  [@Gilbert1984](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gilbert1984)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2013, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/58 "2013-05-07T10:54:42Z")
After reading this thread, I feel like I have been on the receiving end of a wet noodle lashing,
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/59 "2013-05-07T14:08:14Z")
> [@AGuy](#):
>
> Yeah, the chemicals that cause bitterness in beer are known as “alpha acids”, even: [Alpha acid - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_acid)
Good point. I knew that, but it didn’t even occur to me in the context of the post. D’oh!
> [@](#):
>
> The scientist quoted in this article says that “bitter and sweet are in opposition in the brain,” however: [http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Taste-perception-of-bitter-food-is-gene-dependent-Study](http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Taste-perception-of-bitter-food-is-gene-dependent-Study) .
Yeah, “bitter” and “sweet” seem like natural opposites psychologically, and it’s interesting to see that there is some science behind this (although it’s not explained in-depth in that article.)
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### Author:  [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-jumbo-shrimp-an-oxymoron/9631/60 "2013-05-07T15:10:57Z")
My two favorite oxymorons are from Marvel. Mobius the Living Vampire & The Living Mummy.
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