# Is Juneteenth always the 19th for U.S. Federal observation or does it move like some other holidays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566 "2021-06-18T19:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/21 "2021-06-20T19:48:41Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > mail not being delivered, Here’s a question I’ve never realized I have: if the holiday falls on a Saturday does the postal service observe it on the Saturday? Or the Friday? (Neither?) I know that typically, as a M-F Government employee, I get a “in lieu of” holiday on either the Friday or the Monday. My understanding was the government employees that were scheduled to work on Saturday were able to observe the holiday on the Saturday. But I’ve never paid attention to mail delivery. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/22 "2021-06-20T19:58:10Z")
In light of the new Juneteenth holiday being on Saturday, I assumed that there would be no mail delivery yesterday. So I was surprised when I saw a mail truck in front of my house. When I went out to check the mailbox, sure enough there was mail. I’m assuming that because of the last-minute establishment of the holiday there wasn’t time to rearrange the work schedules. Now I’m wondering if I’ll get mail on Monday. On the subject of why it’s called “Juneteenth”, yesterday I had a thought: What if the announcement had been delayed a day or two? How would June twentieth or June twenty-first been “abbreviated”? ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/23 "2021-06-20T20:04:55Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > On the subject of why it’s called “Juneteenth”, yesterday I had a thought: What if the announcement had been delayed a day or two? How would June twentieth or June twenty-first been “abbreviated”? Junetieth? Junetyfirst? Personally, I’m curious to see what moniker they would’ve come up with if it was on June 11 or June 12 instead. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/24 "2021-06-21T12:26:00Z")
I was at a stamp dedication ceremony on June 18th (the day that Juneteenth was to be celebrated for Federal workers due to the actual holiday being Saturday). NASA speakers that were to be there cancelled, because it was easy for them to call a holiday quickly; likewise the Department of Defense. But the Post Office is a bit too complicated to call off a work day on short notice. Thats why the post office was open and there was mail. So, I was told that next year, when Juneteenth is a Sunday, there will be no mail on the Monday after, since that will be the day the holiday is celebrated by Federal workers. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/25 "2021-06-21T12:44:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That was not the question. The question from the Op is [Is Juneteenth always the 19th for U.S. Federal observation or does it move like some other holidays?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566) > > and the answer is, yes, it moves and this year if moved to Friday the 18th. It doesn’t move for federal employees who are working on June 19th, regardless of the day of the week it falls on. I’m a former air traffic controller, and you’d be glad to know we had staffing all seven days of the week (as do TSA officers, federal law enforcement, and many other federal workers). For those employees, their holiday falls on June 19, whether it be a Tuesday or a Sunday. For those federal employees who aren’t scheduled to work on the actual holiday - whether it be a weekend or if the employee’s weekday off falls on the holiday - their holiday in-lieu-of is marked on a different day, either the day immediately prior to their two-days-off or the day immediately following. So the Juneteenth holiday does not “move.” The official “observance” of the day might be shown differently on your calendar (look at July 5 this year, it probably says “Independence Day (observed)” since the 4th is on Sunday), but it doesn’t “move” like President’s Day or Memorial Day or Labor Day. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/26 "2021-06-21T12:57:23Z")
Tangential question: do we fly the American flag for Juneteenth? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/27 "2021-06-21T13:09:38Z")
White woman from a pretty white state: are there any ‘traditional’ Juneteenth things we should engage in? Particular colors to wear, particular foods to cook, particular activities to hold? 'Cause up to the last couple of weeks, I’d never even heard of there being such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/28 "2021-06-21T13:16:12Z")
This is a good resource, including foods etc. > **[Juneteenth](https://nmaahc.si.edu/juneteenth)** > > Juneteenth is a time to gather as a family, reflect on the past and look to the future. Discover ways to celebrate this African American cultural tradition of music, food and freedom.  ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/29 "2021-06-21T13:50:37Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > This is a good resource, including foods etc. Thanks! So, on a first skim, it sounds muchly like 4th of July stuff: get together with family/friends, have fun and eat BBQ/potluck type stuff. I can handle another holiday like that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/30 "2021-06-21T14:00:33Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Holidays with fixed dates are no harder to figure out than the others. If I surprised you on the street and made a $5 bet whether you could tell me what day of the week a given holiday would next fall upon, without aid of technology, would you feel more confident doing that for July 4th, or for Thanksgiving? Then there’s the issue of varying impact to the work schedule. i.e. some years 4th of July is more like a 3-day weekend, but if they fall on Wednesday folks end up making it a 7-day weekend. Most of our holidays have no significant, reality-based connection to the date they fall upon (except New Years). There’s no real reason they can’t all be movable feasts falling at the end of the week. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/31 "2021-06-21T14:12:55Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If I surprised you on the street and made a $5 bet whether you could tell me what day of the week a given holiday would next fall upon, without aid of technology, would you feel more confident doing that for July 4th, or for Thanksgiving? Of course, it’s easier to tell which day of the week Thanksgiving is- but it’s easier to tell which date Independence Day is. I wouldn’t be able to tell you without looking at a calendar if Thanksgiving is November 22 or November 29 or some date in between. Sometimes the day of the week is important to know and other times the date is important to know ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/32 "2021-06-21T14:21:34Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Of course, it’s easier to tell which day of the week Thanksgiving is- but it’s easier to tell which date Independence Day is. I wouldn’t be able to tell you without looking at a calendar if Thanksgiving is November 22 or November 29 or some date in between. Sometimes the day of the week is important to know and other times the date is important to know Nevertheless I think most people and businesses would find it most convenient for planning purposes to know that a given holiday is reliably on a certain day of the week. Then you can plan around the fact that most people are going to treat it as a 3-day weekend (or 4 if it’s on Thursday), without the variation of some people treating it as a 5-day-weekend starting Thursday, or starting on Monday, or just taking a single day off. And while we’re at it, decree that the day after Thanksgiving is also a fed holiday, or just move it to Friday. It’s just stupid that we have this oddball day in a major traveling holiday where some companies take off and some don’t. Having lived in Japan for a while, I have many gripes about the inefficiency of American holiday scheduling, but I shouldn’t hijack further. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/33 "2021-06-21T18:19:27Z")
I did, because it is a federal holiday. The local Lions Club (I think it was them) has a deal that some neighbors use: there’s a hole on the boulevard that they put up a flag for you every holiday, and they come by at night and take it down again. They didn’t put up their flags for Juneteenth, but it was probably because it was such a new holiday. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/34 "2021-06-21T19:29:18Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > And while we’re at it, decree that the day after Thanksgiving is also a fed holiday, or just move it to Friday. It’s just stupid that we have this oddball day in a major traveling holiday where some companies take off and some don’t. When I first started working for the Feds not having Thanksgiving Friday off caused some complications for my plans. I went to a convention in downstate Illinois from Chicago, and since being able to get Friday off depended in a good part on having seniority (people with more seniority had first shot on requesting vacation time). However, there was a workaround; while I couldn’t get the whole day off, I was generally able to get approval for taking the afternoon off. So I’d go to work Friday morning, then leave for the con at lunchtime. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/35 "2021-06-21T20:08:42Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > are there any ‘traditional’ Juneteenth things we should engage in? Particular colors to wear, particular foods to cook, particular activities to hold? Would that be cultural appropriation? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Presidents’ Day Where is that a holiday? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/36 "2021-06-21T20:14:22Z")
No. Eating Tacos and drinking Mexican Beer on Cinco de mayo is not cultural appropriation. Dressing in a Sombrero, sarape and big fake mustache is. Well, that gets into mocking. Wearing green, drinking beer and a funny hat on St Paddy is not cultural appropriation. Wearing a Rainbow pin, etc on Pride day is not cultural appropriation. etc. Those are honoring the day. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/37 "2021-06-21T21:28:19Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Would that be cultural appropriation? I think genuinely trying to participate in a respectful way would be very reasonable. I work at a heavily Hispanic school district and teachers(almost all non-Hispanic) are often invited to quinceañeras and attend. I’ve never “dressed Hispanic” or anything, just attended and celebrated the occasion. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566/38 "2021-06-22T01:17:08Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Where is that a holiday? In the United States. [Washington’s Birthday (aka Presidents’ Day)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%27s_Birthday) is a nationwide federal holiday that falls on the third Monday in February. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-juneteenth-always-the-19th-for-u-s-federal-observation-or-does-it-move-like-some-other-holidays/944566.md?page=1)