# Is Kim Jong Un a puppet? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894 "2013-12-21T13:35:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/1 "2013-12-21T13:35:12Z")
In reading all the news account of actions taken by Kim Jong Un, they make it sound like he is personally making all these decisions, the latest of which was the startling (to me) execution of his own uncle for treason. First, I don’t know if the uncle were truly treasonous or whether they were trumped-up charges to get him out of the way; the accounts I’ve read simply repeat the charges with deadpan seriousness. But regardless, I find it difficult to believe that a 30-year-old with little government or military experience, possibly educated abroad, would step into power with such aggressiveness and vehemence, unless he were possibly indoctrinated into this role from a very young age. But that seems not to be the case; it was not a foregone conclusion prior to Kim Jong Il’s death that Un would be the successor. I know next to nothing about North Korea’s internal politics but as a casual observer this just doesn’t add up to me. Is there a back-room staff of leaders from his father’s ear providing the real leadership that are pulling his strings? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/2 "2013-12-21T15:20:50Z")
He’s a tyrant. A kid that was indoctrinated himself. I think it’s one of two things. 1- His Uncle was making reasonable suggestions that might improve the condition of the Country. BUT, these suggestions might make Kim look like less of a God and would cost him a speed boat or three. 2- He killed him to keep the other dissenters in line. So that he could keep his speed boat or three. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/3 "2013-12-21T15:58:32Z")
No-one knows if Kim is doing these things or taking credit for things he can’t control, and is he is doing them no-one knows what for, whether to keep people in line or to appease hardliners he might not otherwise be able to control. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/4 "2013-12-21T17:08:49Z")
A master puppeteer like Jim Henson might be able to pull it off, but he died in 1990, I believe. So to the OP’s question, I must say “no”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/5 "2013-12-21T17:25:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > He’s a tyrant. A kid that was indoctrinated himself. I think it’s one of two things. > > 1- His Uncle was making reasonable suggestions that might improve the condition of the Country. BUT, these suggestions might make Kim look like less of a God and would cost him a speed boat or three. > > 2- He killed him to keep the other dissenters in line. So that he could keep his speed boat or three. One must occasionally shoot a few Admirals to encourage the others. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/6 "2013-12-21T21:25:51Z")
Even for a tyrant, things are complicated. From what I’ve read, there are two competing factions in Best Korea: 1. The military first group. Hardcore, let the peasants starve if it means they can build nukes and missiles. Hates China (as well as all other nations). Very scary people. 2. Reformers. Reduce the military. Loosen up economically a tiny bit. Work with China to get some aid. Still quite nasty people, but not as bad as the military first people. KJU’s uncle was a major figure in the 2nd group. His execution pretty much says who is firmly in charge now. KJU knows that at any moment he can be taken out. He stays around as long as he is useful to the most dominant group. There is some back and forth. He gives the militarists what they want, they give him what he wants. They play each other. The goal for everyone is to not end up at the wrong end of a machine gun. “Puppet” is far too strong. “Tyrant” ignores political realities. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/7 "2013-12-21T23:39:15Z")
The old Soviet Union was once described as two dwarfs controlling a crocodile: the Party and the KGB kept the military in its place. This now sounds like we’ve got a dwarf controlling two crocodiles! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/8 "2013-12-22T01:37:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One must occasionally shoot a few Admirals to encourage the others. Byng! Thank you for your Candide response. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/9 "2013-12-22T02:25:51Z")
When Un first took over the theory I’d heard was that he was a puppet, but his uncle was the real power behind the throne. To me this murder was a sign that Un was the one trying to consolidate his power. And Un was (to my knowledge) being groomed for a few years before Jong Il died. So he has been at this for a half a decade or more. Granted, not a long time but you can learn a few things in that time. I read that according to SK reports of the 200 most important leaders of the military and political system in NK, about 100 have been purged since Un took over. > **[ANALYSIS | North Korea's 'apprentice dictator' comes of age: Patrick Brown |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jang-song-thaek-execution-tests-north-korea-s-kim-china-s-patience-1.2466528)** > > The surprise execution of North Korea's second in command, the uncle of President Kim Jong-un, seems to have caught even China off guard, Patrick Brown writes. Either Kim is consolidating his power, or he is on the verge of losing it. > [@](#): > > South Korean reports say that about half of the country’s top 200 officials and military officers have been replaced since Kim came to power. The young dictator has been kicking away the training wheels for some time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/10 "2013-12-22T02:28:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Byng! > > Thank you for your Candide response. I had to Google that. I did not know that it was in Candide. I thought it was a smart ass remark Voltaire made to Catherine the Great. Ignorance has been fought! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Armored\_Diplomacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@Armored\_Diplomacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Armored_Diplomacy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/11 "2013-12-22T03:20:48Z")
I actually think his heavy-handed actions might be, at least in part, due to the paranoid fear of exactly this; becoming a puppet. Perhaps his uncle gave him some advice, and Un came to view him as a threat who was trying to rule via him as a proxy. Kim Jong Un is likely very paranoid, and is purging anyone he considers a threat to his rule. He probably understands he’s young for a world leader, relatively inexperienced, and feels vulnerable to older and wiser people in the military and government, who could try to use him or overthrow him, so he’s just getting them out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/12 "2013-12-22T03:35:49Z")
> [@Armored\_Diplomacy](#): > > He probably understands he’s young for a world leader, relatively inexperienced Dudes young and inexperienced to be selling ladies shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/13 "2013-12-22T05:12:31Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I know next to nothing about North Korea’s internal politics… The internal politics are, at heart, very simple. The Kims want to retain power and will do anything at all in order to achieve that. Everything else comes from there. > [@](#): > > But regardless, I find it difficult to believe that a 30-year-old with little government or military experience, possibly educated abroad, would step into power with such aggressiveness and vehemence, unless he were possibly indoctrinated into this role from a very young age. But that seems not to be the case; it was not a foregone conclusion prior to Kim Jong Il’s death that Un would be the successor. I actually find it very easy to believe, given what we know about the Kims and the way they think. He wasn’t the heir apparent all along, but he was certainly indoctrinated into the Kim brand of megalomania from birth. That kind of vehemence and aggressiveness is not surprising from one who believes he is infallible. > [@](#): > > but as a casual observer this just doesn’t add up to me. It doesn’t add up because a sane and normal person has trouble comprehending how unbelievably screwed up North Korea is. It’s just very very hard to wrap your brain around it because the stuff they do makes no sense at all. The country is just one big giant ball of WTF. You have to make kind of a mental leap before you can believe the insanity of it all. > [@Armored\_Diplomacy](#): > > I actually think his heavy-handed actions might be, at least in part, due to the paranoid fear of exactly this; becoming a puppet…Kim Jong Un is likely very paranoid, and is purging anyone he considers a threat to his rule. He probably understands he’s young for a world leader, relatively inexperienced, and feels vulnerable to older and wiser people in the military and government, who could try to use him or overthrow him, so he’s just getting them out of the way. I think this is a very likely scenario. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/14 "2013-12-22T05:34:40Z")
The thing is Kim III might just be a great reformer. Or he may be Stalin reborn. I have heard many theories about uncle’s popping, ranging from a hard liner crackdown, to a crackdown on hard liners to ( seriously) Kim III getting pissed off over uncles extra marital affairs. Nobody has a clue and if they say they do, they are lying even more than the CIA did on WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/15 "2013-12-22T05:55:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The thing is Kim III might just be a great reformer. Or he may be Stalin reborn. I have heard many theories about uncle’s popping, ranging from a hard liner crackdown, to a crackdown on hard liners to ( seriously) Kim III getting pissed off over uncles extra marital affairs. > > Nobody has a clue and if they say they do, they are lying even more than the CIA did on WMDs. Unfortunately, from his actions since taking power, it’s looking increasingly unlikely that he’s going to be a great reformer unless his hand is forced somehow. You’re right in that the uncle’s execution could indicate a number of things, but taken in the context of his other deeds, it’s unlikely that he did it for any reason that we might find palatable. ETA: Not that we would find any political execution palatable…well, I think you know what I meant anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kim-jong-un-a-puppet/676894/16 "2013-12-22T05:55:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Kim Jong Un a puppet? Obligatory link: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ)