I think there’s a bit of confusion - yes, “Knacker” is (AFAIK) a pejorative Irish term for only Irish Travellers, but “the travelling community”, as first used in this thread by jjimm, isn’t* just* the Irish Travellers, but rather an umbrella term for all travelling groups (or, pedantically, for at least both Roma and Pavee, given the comparison between Knacker and chav.)
Although my understanding is that there is a difference in that “knacker” is an exonym for the Pavee (based on their horse-trading tradition, no doubt, so it’s an occupational ethnonym) while “chav” is an appropriated version of a Romani word with a non-pejorative meaning within the language itself, that isn’t actually used to refer to Romani themselves AFAIK.
You’re misreading what I wrote. And also I didn’t write it very clearly. I suspect the confusion comes from my generic use of “the travelling community” WRT the UK.
“The travelling community” = anyone nomadic.
“Travellers” (in Ireland) = Irish Travellers.
I made a throwaway line that the insult “chav” is derived from (a word from) the (UK) travelling community (the Roma) and means low-class person, just as “knacker” now means low-class person in Ireland - but was originally an insult derived from an (insulting) appellation afforded to (Irish) Travellers.
Thank you MrDibble for explaining it better and letting me know I’m not mad.
Ah yes, sorry I get you and jjimm now. To complicate matters you do occasionally meet an Irish traveller who refers to themselves as a knacker. Another exonym, albeit outdated, for Irish travellers is “tinker”.
I blame this sentence.
“And in Ireland “knacker” is an offensive term to refer to the travelling community, which has expanded out to mean underclass person - akin to the UK’s “chav” which also comes from the travelling community.”
I suppose it’s different in Britain but if you said “the travelling community” to me I would certainly assume you meant Irish Travellers. I don’t think the term as it’s used in Ireland has really branched out to include the Roma, although maybe that’s just my own perception.
well the context of the clause about the word “chav” in my original statement was the UK, but I agree it was very badly written and I could have worded it a LOT better.
