# Is kneeling on the neck of someone being detained acceptable police procedure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kneeling-on-the-neck-of-someone-being-detained-acceptable-police-procedure/854687 "2020-05-29T17:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kneeling-on-the-neck-of-someone-being-detained-acceptable-police-procedure/854687/61 "2020-06-02T21:08:23Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, I don’t know about this "backing up blood flow through the heart’ etc. > > I thought asphyxiation was lack of oxygen. I’ve run across the term used when someone is strangled, suffocated (mouth or pillow over the mouth and nose, for example) or simple lack of oxygen, where they are in an area where the oxygen ha been consumed (although I guess carbon monoxide poisoning is not the same). I have also heard it used when someone is compressed (i.e. ditch cave in) so they cannot breathe, their chest is compressed. Unless the problem was blood flow to the brain, not being able to breath because the throat or chest cavity was too compressed seems like asphyxiation to me. I guess that’s why I’m not a coroner. > > The problem with the whole dueling autopsies thing is it brings on a question whether the County coroner is softening the news to make the county less liable if the problem was underlying heart condition (not proven) or drugs(also not independently proven) rather than 100% officer(s) sadisim. [As an example.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/us/ohio-teen-pinned-minivan-trnd/index.html) A kid got caught in the back row of his minivan. > [@](#): > > A preliminary autopsy ruled that Kyle died of “asphyxia due to chest compression.” In other words, his death wasn’t the result of foul play or drugs. It was accidental; he suffocated because something was limiting the expansion of his chest and lungs and he couldn’t breathe. There was no trauma. Had he been let out of the van, he would have been just fine. Doesn’t require drugs, just something to interfere with your breathing. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kneeling-on-the-neck-of-someone-being-detained-acceptable-police-procedure/854687/62 "2020-06-02T21:52:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > [As an example.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/us/ohio-teen-pinned-minivan-trnd/index.html) A kid got caught in the back row of his minivan. > > There was no trauma. Had he been let out of the van, he would have been just fine. > > Doesn’t require drugs, just something to interfere with your breathing. linked article from k9bfriender says: > [@](#): > > It was accidental; he suffocated because something was limiting the expansion of his chest and lungs and he couldn’t breathe. IANAD but… That means he couldn’t get air because his chest couldn’t move well enough. So the blood couldn’t get oxygenated before it went to the brain. Sounds like asphyxiation. The aforementioned autopsy for Floyd mentions blood not getting to the brain. That says to me his breathing and oxygenation were ok but the blood supply to the brain was pinched off, possibly by some cop kneeling on the blood vessels that would supply it. That autopsy called this asphyxiation also, however. Mayo Clinic says a blocked artery can be a cause of **stroke** …so why isn’t it a stroke instead of asphyxia? > [@](#): > > Causes > There are two main causes of stroke: a blocked artery (ischemic stroke) or leaking or bursting of a blood vessel (hemorrhagic stroke). Some people may have only a temporary disruption of blood flow to the brain, known as a transient ischemic attack (TIA), that doesn’t cause lasting symptoms. > **[Stroke - Symptoms and causes](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/stroke/symptoms-causes/syc-20350113)** > > Promptly spotting stroke symptoms leads to faster treatment and less damage to the brain. Then there was golfer Payne Stewart, who died of hypoxia (along with everyone else on his plane). “National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators concluded that the aircraft failed to pressurize and that all on board died due to hypoxia as the aircraft passed to the west of Gainesville, Florida. The aircraft continued flying on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed into a field near Mina, South Dakota.[34][35]” > **[Payne Stewart | Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payne_Stewart#Death)** > > On October 25, 1999, Stewart was killed in the crash of a Learjet flying from his home in Orlando, Florida, to Texas for the year-ending tournament, The Tour Championship, held at Champions Golf Club in Houston. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators concluded that the aircraft failed to pressurize and that all on board were incapacitated by hypoxia as the aircraft passed to the west of Gainesville, Florida. The aircraft continued flying on autopilot until it ran out of fuel an... So asphyxia, stroke, hypoxia…all lack of oxygen to the brain? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kneeling-on-the-neck-of-someone-being-detained-acceptable-police-procedure/854687/63 "2020-06-03T16:42:09Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > linked article from k9bfriender says: > > IANAD but… > > That means he couldn’t get air because his chest couldn’t move well enough. So the blood couldn’t get oxygenated before it went to the brain. Sounds like asphyxiation. > > The aforementioned autopsy for Floyd mentions blood not getting to the brain. That says to me his breathing and oxygenation were ok but the blood supply to the brain was pinched off, possibly by some cop kneeling on the blood vessels that would supply it. That autopsy called this asphyxiation also, however. > > Mayo Clinic says a blocked artery can be a cause of **stroke** …so why isn’t it a stroke instead of asphyxia? > > [Stroke - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/stroke/symptoms-causes/syc-20350113) > > Then there was golfer Payne Stewart, who died of hypoxia (along with everyone else on his plane). > > “National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators concluded that the aircraft failed to pressurize and that all on board died due to hypoxia as the aircraft passed to the west of Gainesville, Florida. The aircraft continued flying on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed into a field near Mina, South Dakota.[34][35]” > > [Payne Stewart - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payne_Stewart#Death) > > So asphyxia, stroke, hypoxia…all lack of oxygen to the brain? Asphxia means not being able to take in enough air. Strokes haves to do with the blood vessels in the brain. Either they burst and cause a hemorrhagic stroke or are blocked and cause an ischemic stroke. Hypoxia is what actually causes the cell death. It could be from either not being able to take in enough oxygen from the air or from a blocked or broken blood vessel not being able to get the oxygen to the tissue. Ultimately, hypoxia is what causes almost all death so it would be redundant to say someone died of hypoxia. Usually the cause of death would be listed as stroke or asphyxia. In the Payne Stewart case, all the people were able to take in enough air, and there bodies were working fine, it is just that the air they were breathing did not have enough oxygen to keep them alive. That is why the cause of death was hypoxia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kneeling-on-the-neck-of-someone-being-detained-acceptable-police-procedure/854687.md?page=3)