# Is Kwanzaa "over"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012 "2008-12-29T00:48:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/21 "2008-12-30T02:15:40Z")
“The Fresh Prince” was from his rap days, “DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince”. Remember “Parents Just Don’t Understand” and “I Think I Can Beat Mike Tyson?” And do NOT knock Queen Latifah. This white girl thinks she rocks. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/22 "2008-12-30T03:09:13Z")
> [@Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](#): > > Given the title by whom? When? Where? Why? Dude, it was the late 60s/early 70s. You had to be there. (thinking) No, you’re better off not being there because you couldn’t laugh out loud about that shit 'cuz some Panther wannabe would ice you. (thinking more) Okay, not ice you, but you’d get a two-hour harangue about cultural sensitivity and it would harsh your buzz. And the buzz was all you’d get out of the party 'cuz no African princess, real or recently crowned, was likely to be interested in YOUR (okay, MY) sorry, white ass. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/23 "2008-12-30T10:16:51Z")
Also, Kings of Leon? Queens of the Stone Age? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/24 "2008-12-30T19:01:08Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Do you have a cite for that in its full context? > > Today it’s far more of a cultural/political holiday than a religious one, and plenty of people happily partake in both Christmas and Kwanzaa. You can follow the links and Google it, but it’s a direct quote from a cite from a heavily disputed page on wiki, thus if the quote was bogus, it’d be gone by now. Read teh wiki discussion pages. I know no-one that “partakes” of Kwanzaa. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/25 "2008-12-30T19:07:22Z")
Nothing to add, except that my wife was an editor on this book, which continues to sell: [http://www.amazon.com/Imanis-Gift-Kwanzaa-Multicultural-Celebrations/dp/0671798413/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230663909&sr=1-1](http://www.amazon.com/Imanis-Gift-Kwanzaa-Multicultural-Celebrations/dp/0671798413/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230663909&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/26 "2008-12-30T19:10:36Z")
All I know is, I saw one reference this season to Kwanzaa, and about thirty to Festivus. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/27 "2008-12-30T20:20:39Z")
Shouldn’t Kwanzaa-bot be distributing the traditional Kwanzaa gift? That’ll help move things along. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/28 "2008-12-31T01:05:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can follow the links and Google it, but it’s a direct quote from a cite from a heavily disputed page on wiki, thus if the quote was bogus, it’d be gone by now. Read teh wiki discussion pages. I know it’s a direct quote from the Wikipedia. The Wikipedia entry, on the other hand, is directly quoting that “[christocentric.com](http://christocentric.com)” site that I linked to. That site doesn’t show any more of the quote, nor the context. That site also has a VERY obvious agenda. Again, it’s not that I don’t believe that that was their stance 30 years ago, I just want some decent evidence that that was the case. I linked to their current stance, and it definitely doesn’t back up that cite. Keep in mind, that quote came from a site that also has gems such as: [QUOTE=Carlotta Morrow at [christocentric.com](http://christocentric.com)] **This writer is convinced that Kwanzaa was not created as a cultural celebration, but as a cultural disguise to lure the gullible into a new religion** - a new way of life - a life full of self-isms: self-determination, self-pride, self-directed destiny, self-creation and self-centered religion where man is given equality with God. The Christian would do well to heed the scriptural warnings found in the New Testament: ``` "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11 ``` Instead of Kwanzaa being celebrated, it needs to be exposed. Instead of creating a new celebration to makeup for the runaway commercialism of Christmas, we need to reflect upon our own God-given values as Christians to the true meaning of holidays such as Christmas, and reflect upon our faith in the one true living God and Savior, Jesus Christ. [/QUOTE] So I’d just like a little stronger evidence before I go Kwanzaa bashing. ---
**Author:** ![discodancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@discodancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/discodancer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/29 "2008-12-31T01:33:43Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I notice that it has the right number of syllables for the Bing Crosby thing. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/30 "2008-12-31T04:05:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Shouldn’t Kwanzaa-bot be distributing the traditional Kwanzaa gift? That’ll help move things along. I was going to say, _Futurama_ is the _only_ reference to this “Kwanzaa” thing I’ve ever heard of. People at least accept Festivus as a joke (because it’s pretty funny, IMHO)- If anyone is trying to get it made an actual holiday, it’s in the same spirit as “Talk Like A Pirate Day” (to which I reply: Where’s “Dress Like A Ninja Day”?) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/31 "2008-12-31T04:13:38Z")
For the people who rarely hear about Kwanzaa: What type of circles do you normally associate with? I mean, I teach at an almost all black population school, with almost all black staff and I hear about Kwanzaa all the time. As I stated above, I even attended a Kwanzaa celebration this year as well as last year, heck, I was even invited to go up and dance on stage during the festivities. In fact, I can honestly say that I have heard more about Kwanzaa this year than Hannukah. In fact, I’ve been to more Kwanzaa celebrations in my life than Hannukah. I don’t know many Jewish people and perhaps that is why. I think it’s more about the circles you frequent, than whether a holiday is “dying out.” ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/32 "2008-12-31T04:47:36Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > For the people who rarely hear about Kwanzaa: What type of circles do you normally associate with? I mean, I teach at an almost all black population school, with almost all black staff and I hear about Kwanzaa all the time. As I stated above, I even attended a Kwanzaa celebration this year as well as last year, heck, I was even invited to go up and dance on stage during the festivities. In fact, I can honestly say that I have heard more about Kwanzaa this year than Hannukah. In fact, I’ve been to more Kwanzaa celebrations in my life than Hannukah. I don’t know many Jewish people and perhaps that is why. I think it’s more about the circles you frequent, than whether a holiday is “dying out.” I live in Australia, and more specifically in Queensland, which is not exactly the most cosmopolitan state in the Commonwealth ;). I don’t know anyone who celebrates Hanukkah, either, FWIW. I asked a Muslim friend what he was doing for Christmas. “Enjoying the holidays, same as you!” was his reply. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/33 "2008-12-31T05:41:30Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I was going to say, _Futurama_ is the _only_ reference to this “Kwanzaa” thing I’ve ever heard of. To be fair, I’m sure there are a number of Australian celebrations unfamiliar to North Americans, like Chizz-Wuzzer Week and Koala-ala-day ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/34 "2009-01-02T03:36:38Z")
I grew up with lots of black friends, still have a few (even there aren’t any black people in Arizona) and I swear I thought Kwanzaa was a brief media hype in the early '90s that turned into a joke that lasted waaaay too long. I had no idea it was ever really alive to be dead. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/35 "2009-01-02T07:13:29Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > I do have to say I’m not particularly surprised that a **libertarian** organization doesn’t like a celebration of **communitarian** principles. I get what you’re saying, but i’m not sure the contradiction you are asserting is a necessary one. As long as a communitarian organization or institution or tradition involves free choice on the part of the participants, with no coercion, it poses no threat or contradiction to libertarian principles. Libertarianism is not inherently opposed to cooperation, association, or even socialism; it just asks that the relationships between people be rooted in freedom and voluntarism. ETA: If anything, i’m surprised that a libertarian has such contempt for a voluntarist celebration that really has little or no impact on anyone not directly involved. There is, i guess, stuff about Kwanzaa that people might legitimately find strange or amusing or pointless or culturally regressive, but it really doesn’t do anyone any harm, as far as i can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/36 "2009-01-02T09:23:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [IKarenga said his goal was to “…give Blacks an alternative to the existing holiday and give Blacks an opportunity to celebrate themselves and history, rather than simply imitate the practice of the dominant society.”[3] \* > [Kwanzaa - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa) > > _In 1971, Karenga, Louis Smith, and Luz Maria Tamayo were convicted of felony assault and false imprisonment for assaulting and torturing over a two day period two women from the US organization, Deborah Jones and Gail Davis.[3] An article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women: “Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis’ mouth and placed against Miss Davis’ face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vice. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said”.[3]_ > [Maulana Karenga - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Karenga) Well that falls into the OMG category. I had no idea. If this guy is Santa Claus I’d hate to be on his naughty list. I don’t know how popular Kwanzaa is in my area but every year PBS shows a video describing it during the Christmas holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/37 "2009-01-03T01:10:41Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Well, it was more a matter that nobody ever really needed Kwanzaa for anything. All holidays start out being “made up”, but this one was just plain stupid. Well, as has been pointed out many times and in many ways, not all holidays are “made up.” If we’ve been having a holiday around the winter solstice for untold millenia, I don’t think you can really Christmas as we know it was just invented one day. But some holidays _are_ in fact just invented one day. Mother’s Day is an example. But unlike Kwanzaa, Mother’s Day has grown and become generally accepted as a holiday. And this, to a large extent, supports your first point. Mother’s Day fulfills a need, whether it’s a need for mothers to be honored, or a need for FTD to sell more flowers. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > I’m white and I teach at a predominantly black elementary school here in the New Orleans’ area. I’ve been to and participated in several Kwanzaa celebrations, including one this year at a local community center. It seems to be doing okay around here. You say the celebration was at a community center. Are these other Kwanzaa parties happening in public places or in people’s private homes? Could there be reasons that these institutions are holding these celebrations other than that people really care about Kwanzaa? As **EpiGirl** said, “From what I have observed, few black people celebrate the holiday outside of a school or sometimes church setting, if at all.” I agree with this. I see evidence that people are still publically paying lip service to Kwanzaa, but I don’t see any that it has become genuinely meaningful to people. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/38 "2009-01-03T05:27:07Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > But some holidays _are_ in fact just invented one day. Mother’s Day is an example. Sorry, but I have worked for large corporations (not Hallmark, but I have a cousin who did) and I cannot believe they invented that in one day. Sure, there was the brainstorming session it came out of, but then there needed to be a committee to look into it, and then another to implement it, and before you know it, five years have passed by. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/39 "2009-01-03T07:21:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Sorry, but I have worked for large corporations (not Hallmark, but I have a cousin who did) and I cannot believe they invented that in one day. [Hyperbole](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole) Somehow i doubt that **Green Bean** really meant that Mother’s Day went from idea to cultural institution in 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012/40 "2009-01-03T07:34:57Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Sorry, but I have worked for large corporations (not Hallmark, but I have a cousin who did) and I cannot believe they invented that in one day. Sure, there was the brainstorming session it came out of, but then there needed to be a committee to look into it, and then another to implement it, and before you know it, five years have passed by. Hallmark did not invent Mother’s Day at all. The holiday celebrated on the second Sunday of May in the U.S. was begun by Anna Jarvis in 1907 who campaigned for national recognition, which it got in 1914. She later became quite embittered about its commercialization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-kwanzaa-over/479012.md?page=3)