# Is Latin America Western? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428 "2011-04-15T01:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/41 "2011-04-20T10:27:33Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But since you ask in GD, here’s a thesis for debate: "Western nations are those in which the culture is predominantly derived from a European, as opposed to indigenous origin, though with varying degrees of indigenous and other-immigrant influence. This would include lingua franca, cultural institutions, etc. What exactly is the difference between “European” and “indigenous”? Europeans are indigenous Europeans, no? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/42 "2011-04-20T10:38:08Z")
Apparently only Africans are indigenous. He means colonization and imperialism. But not every colonized nation is Western (see India). Europe: White people fight each other for 1000 years. Then they get so tired of fighting over the same square two miles that they get on a ship and look elsewhere (cause who’s going to go explore Russia?) Colonized nation: White people get on boat, sail on ship, find land, annihilate the people that were there previously, set up shop. Westernized America: Colonized by mostly: English, Spanish, French. The descendents all banded together to fight the enemy of Everyone Else while privately loathing each other. Latin America: Peru and Mexico suffered something akin to an indentured servant/slave system for 500 years and then Spain was too busy fighting France to manage their overseas operation. New countries emerge. They start fighting wars. Mexico and the US go to war. Mexico loses half of its territory. Neener. Neener. Mexico is subjugated by the US for the next 150 years. End result: Can’t be part of a majority group if you’re the suppressed minority. While Latin America is not just Mexico, Mexico is one of the better off. things that distinguish (or group) civilizations in political science: domestic culture history government economics growth power on the international front this is why ancient greece is considered part of ‘western civilization’. ---
**Author:** ![Marquez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Marquez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marquez)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/43 "2011-04-20T12:27:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Samuel Huntington was a cold warrior trying to cast the new world in terms he understood. His work is useless except as a justification for neoconservative foreign policy. I think you can include Fukuyama there as well. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/44 "2011-04-20T12:37:44Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Apparently only Africans are indigenous. . They aren’t descendants of Europeans, are they? Latin Americans have European ancestors, in the same way Australians or North Americans have. So, please don’t mix pears with apples. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/45 "2011-04-20T12:40:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > A > growth > power on the international front > . Well, some countries are declining and still have stockpiles of nukes. They not necesarily correlates. Other countries lack last generation aircraft carriers but have better trains, and theirs infrastructure is not falling down. But economics is not the point here. We are talking about civilization here, not about how much the dollar is falling down. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/46 "2011-04-20T13:27:06Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > if you can’t see political science as a science > then you’re not a very good scientist. Why don’t you enlighten us as to how the discipline employs the scientific method? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/47 "2011-04-20T21:21:51Z")
Latin American culture IS western culture. With the exception of Peru, Bolivia, and a bit of Chile, european settlers displaced the native cultures-and nothing remains of those in the other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/48 "2011-04-20T21:24:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Latin American culture IS western culture. With the exception of Peru, Bolivia, and a bit of Chile, european settlers displaced the native cultures-and nothing remains of those in the other countries. Wow. Tell that to a Mexican! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/49 "2011-04-21T00:22:45Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Latin American culture IS western culture. With the exception of Peru, Bolivia, and a bit of Chile, european settlers displaced the native cultures-and nothing remains of those in the other countries. Nothing remain? I wouldn’t say so. The Native culture is an important heritage of local countries, usually associated to patriotism and nationalistic feelings. I would say nothing has been lost actually, given most handcrafts, foods, traditions, the most important languages, and even legends, music and arts are preserved. But the mainstream culture comes from Europe. No doubt about it. It is not the anglosaxon-germanic culture of Northern Europe, but the Catholic, rural, catholic and backwards culture of deep Southern Europe. It is the medioeval Europe what expanded to Latin America, and in some way our fight has been to leave the Middle Ages behind. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/50 "2011-04-21T00:31:26Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Europe: White people fight each other for 1000 years. Then they get so tired of fighting over the same square two miles that they get on a ship and look elsewhere (cause who’s going to go explore Russia?) [Vikings!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians)😃 Vikings is always the answer! ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/51 "2011-04-21T01:00:11Z")
You mean the Norse, I guess. Vikings were those Norse that practised piracy… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/52 "2011-04-21T01:31:02Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > You mean the Norse, I guess. Vikings were those Norse that practised piracy… [Prince Rurik](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik) did not become a prince by bartering for sable pelts, _tovarisch!_😃 ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/53 "2011-04-21T01:53:16Z")
Well, not all Norse were violent people. You have the common farmer, the trader, the musician and the carpenter! They were a society a lot richer than the one shown in class-B movies. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/54 "2011-04-21T06:26:46Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Well, not all Norse were violent people. You have the common farmer, the trader, the musician and the carpenter! They were a society a lot richer than the one shown in class-B movies. And of course Kenneth Clarke’s magnificent book / documentary series “Civilisation” kicks off with a description of the prow of a viking long-boat. Lord Clarke didn’t bother including ‘Western’ in the title of his masterpiece, nor include anything from outside Europe, but it is a seminal text for anyone interested in understanding (Western) civilisation. I commend it to you. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/55 "2011-04-21T15:30:00Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Nothing remain? I wouldn’t say so. The Native culture is an important heritage of local countries, usually associated to patriotism and nationalistic feelings. I would say nothing has been lost actually, given most handcrafts, foods, traditions, the most important languages, and even legends, music and arts are preserved. > > But the mainstream culture comes from Europe. No doubt about it. It is not the anglosaxon-germanic culture of Northern Europe, but the Catholic, rural, catholic and backwards culture of deep Southern Europe. It is the medioeval Europe what expanded to Latin America, and in some way our fight has been to leave the Middle Ages behind. There is no indigenous culture in Brazil, or Argentina. The elites of these countries embrace a modern western culture-based upon the SA and Western Europe. A Brazilian businessman in Sao Paulo dresses western, and lives western..with nothing from the indigenous clture. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/56 "2011-04-21T15:41:18Z")
Do you think so? Watch. Convince yourself. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkqw4YjyJ1A](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkqw4YjyJ1A) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/57 "2011-04-21T16:12:20Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > There is no indigenous culture in Brazil, or Argentina. The elites of these countries embrace a modern western culture-based upon the SA and Western Europe. A Brazilian businessman in Sao Paulo dresses western, and lives western..with nothing from the indigenous clture. You know, there are still a lot of **Indians** in Brazil retaining some elements of their pre-Columbian culture (there are even some who have never been exposed to any other). I don’t know about Argentina. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/58 "2011-04-21T18:08:01Z")
Argentina has Mapuche, Guaranies, Diaguitas and I believe Aymaras as well. Some of its famous figures has been Indigenous people, like Mercedes Sosa. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/59 "2011-04-21T18:53:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You know, there are still a lot of **Indians** in Brazil retaining some elements of their pre-Columbian culture … Same for the US and Canada. And in Norway and Sweden you have the Lapps. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428/60 "2011-04-22T01:10:59Z")
In Chile we have around 600.000 natives that keep theirs traditional cultures. So, I don’t see our native cultures are extinguished, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-latin-america-western/578428.md?page=4)